Should they be a skirmisher unit or stay as infantry as is?
I'm of the mindset that they need to be remade into some form of skirmisher and or scout unit.
I think it would make more sense for them to be a skirmisher unit. They could be made into a much better unit that way.
Interesting thought there. I wonder how effective that would be in gameplay. Looks like you have a homework assignment.
Sneaky gits should be skirmishers imo also there are quite a few fluffy ways to represent their sneakiness.They have poison attacks so throwing daggers could be useful . Sneaky back attacks could be represented by deployment as scouts last and close to the enemy or perhaps hidden deployment where for all intents and purposes they arrive later ala herds ,miners etc.Perhaps auto rally when fleeing as thats what they would always do or they flee further because like athletes they have honed their skills at running to heroic(cowardly
) preportions
Skirmishers and scouts. Even before they weren't that sneaky but now they're just awful.
With the removal of the lapping around rule they should either be scouts or skirmishers (or possibly both).
At the moment they are pretty much redundant.
a homework assignment you say? well lets run the theory and numbers here.
the theory is bridging a gap between what they used to be with lapping around, and what they are now with the free reform. this way you get the free reform, but also automatically deny ranks to the enemy provided you have 10 models. 10 because the old rules allowed you to wrap around, and you need 5 models to deny ranks, plus the 5 in front. this by itself could be too powerful, so possibly making an exclusion stating in the 2nd and subsequent rounds of combat.
so a unit of 30 sneaky gitz. with full command we are talking 180 points. 6x5 deployment vs, lets say empire spearmen of the same size, 5+ armor:
13 attacks.
6-7 hits., 2 auto wounds
2-3 wounds + 2 auto wounds= gross 4-5 wounds
1-2 saves
net 3 kills average.
spears attack back.
10 attacks.
5 hits
2-3 wounds gross
no saves
net 2-3 kills average.
tie combat.
so first round is pretty equal, as it should be. similarly priced units.
second round
13 attacks.
6-7 hits., 2 auto wounds
2-3 wounds + 2 auto wounds= gross 4-5 wounds
1-2 saves
net 3 kills average.
spears attack back.
10 attacks.
5 hits
2-3 wounds gross
no saves
net 2-3 kills average.
same effect kill wise, but now the sneaky gitz have 3 ranks and win combat by 3-4 depending on numbers. this is acceptable as they occupy a special slot as opposed to a core slot like the spearmen.
Well done slave for you :awards slave:
Skirmishers, definitely. Rules aside, the rank and file character of a unit just won't befit the chaotic and disorganized sneaky gitz.
Okay, 17-0 say make them skirmishers. I guess that is pretty conclusive. It only makes sense when you ready the fluff and description.
We should save this oh-so scientific poll for GW when rewrite time rolls around...
Hence the whole point of this thread
I'd say skirmishers simply because at the moment they are just expensive hobgoblins with poisoned attacks and two hand weapons which take up a special choice - they are nothing special. Dwarf armies also lack skirmishers so its something else which sets us apart from them
What do you mean? Goblins are sooo worth it.
Skirmishers / scouts are IMO the best choice. I wouldn't say they are far off Gnobblar Trapper rules - except instead of hunter rules, a rule that says something like they can negate ranks...
Well the fact that they can't lap around anymore, unless they are exempt from that. Not really sure. I think they should be skirmishers.
Personally, at 2 points a model for hobgoblins and +3points/model for most units to have additional hand weapons, at the moment, sneaky gits get poison for free. If we get scouts/skirmishers or both in one unit, then our list will have even less weaknesses. We need the list to be balanced. I like the idea of sneaky gits negating ranks. But, I would say only if they outnumber the enemy. Even that is pushing it.
I t wouldn't unbalance things too much. Orcs in 6th Edition had everything but skirmishers but in 7th, they have Squig Hoppers. They haven't impacted upon the army that much.
Chaos Dwarfs have no heavy Cav, chariots or flying units.
So, even if we did get Skirmishers or scouts the list would still to a large extent be an anvil list rather than a hammer list.
I think it would be interesting for Sneaky Gits to have poison.
So long as opponents were smart enough to keep Giants and other high toughness things away from them it shouldn't be too unbalancing.
Who voted non-skirmisher?
Lemme givvem a slap
I haven't voted yet because I don't think that they should be kept as they are. I can understand the reasoning behind skirmishers though. Wallacer, BCs can be turned into heavy hitting cavalry and we have the great taurus, lammasu and shadow spells for flying...