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Anyone notice the wording in the new Chaos Legions and the Undead Legions. I'm assuming GW has done this to balance the books?



Time of Madness
You can take magic items, you just can't give (for example) VC items to TK characters.
Where is the above from ToM? Doesn't look like anything from the end times books.

I looks a bit RAW and not RAI.
The scans are from the respective Armies books. There are, obviously, loads of places where these books refer to "a Warriors of Chaos army" or "a Vampire Counts army" or whatever. That doesn't mean you can't use whatever these rules are if playing Undead or Chaos Legions. That would be an overly literal reading of the rules.
Thommy,

The wording of the rules (RAW) is that you can't take magic items.

Magic items aren't mentioned anywhere, its the armybook that gives you access to the army specific items. For example in Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos it gives models in the Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos access to those magic items in addition to the rulebook items.

This may have just been an oversight by GW and not intended to be read as so OR it could have been intentionally done as to not give the new books some very powerful combos (like the doombull with blackened plate leading 17 trolls in horde formation).

Opinions?

Time of Madness
"...you must use the unit profiles, points costs, equipment, options and special rules found in either Warhammer: Vampire Counts (denoted by 'VC') or Warhammer: Tomb Kings (denoted by 'TK')." - Warhammer: Nagash, Book II, page 20 (emphasis mine).

Time of Madness Wrote:
This may have just been an oversight by GW and not intended to be read as so OR it could have been intentionally done as to not give the new books some very powerful combos (like the doombull with blackened plate leading 17 trolls in horde formation).


If they'd meant to say "unlike every other army in the game, you can't take items from the main rulebook", they'd have said... that. Or that you can "only" take magic items from the list. Or something to indicate that it is in some way different to normal.

As it stands, they've simply not mentioned it. In which case the normal rules apply.

GW write poorly thought-out and unclear rules at the best of times, it doesn't help to go hunting for obscure loopholes.

Yeah, as a rule, GW don't put "Easter eggs" in their rules that aren't properly explained. In the VC book they even point out that a Ghoul King can't take magic armour, though the rules are completely clear.
GW don't care that a Doombull can take a whatsit and join some trolls and make them good. That's not how Warhammer works. They think of something thematically cool, like combining army lists to make awesome-looking alliances that tell a story and also help to normalise sales of their miniatures and get people interested, and then they do it. Then they tell you how it works or what isn't included. They're not going to leave an important alteration to rules unmentioned so that players can work it out for themselves via the application of obscure and tiresome pedantry. Units from one book use all their options alongside units from another book which use all of theirs; there is no reason to look for extra complications, its really very simple: Why would the Vampires throw away all their magic stuff when they joined Nagash? I know, I know, its fluff not RULES, but that's exactly how GW looks at these things - fluff first, rules second.
There should be a 'Like' button everywhere on the internet.
Thanks for all the comments folks. I agree completely with you guys. People over on "The Warhammer Fourm" don't though.

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic....9&start=30

Time of Madness
the only thing you can count on on a warhammer forum is a literal rules argument.
Hey all,

Just got my copy of the new End of Times Book and Finally the Chaos Dwarfs are mentioned in the End of Times book, Glotkin.

It's a short snippet but I'll take any mention.

Whoop whoop.

Also can Chaos Dwarf sorcerers take the summoning spell, as the wording states all Chaos Wizards can take the summoning spell.

Wolf  Wrote:
Hey all,

Just got my copy of the new End of Times Book and Finally the Chaos Dwarfs are mentioned in the End of Times book, Glotkin.

It's a short snippet but I'll take any mention.

Whoop whoop.

Also can Chaos Dwarf sorcerers take the summoning spell, as the wording states all Chaos Wizards can take the summoning spell.


Could you please post the chaos dwarf quote Wolf?

I havn`t read the book yet. But regarding "chaos wizards" don`t count on it. We are not part of the Warhammer rules - properly refers to beastmen, warriors of chaos and demons.

That being said: We are a chaos force, and when my groupnthrows yourself into the end times daemonsmiths are chaos wizards.

On the contrary however. If Hashut is jut a greater demon, maybe we can`t. Is the Horned Rat Vermin Demon also a greater chaos demon? They cant choose it.

Of cause we should count as chaos wizards. Why don't you write GW and FW for an answer?

Ooops sorry Bloodbeard extract below:

"The Craterblades

Each regiment in Talabhiem had its own banner and traditions, but the bulk of them were referred to collectively as Craterbaldes.  During their proud history they have saved Talabhiem from a Waaagh!, giant vermin, and the magma beasts of the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Korakagrakk"

Cool, still scouting the book for any other references.

Wolf  Wrote:
Also can Chaos Dwarf sorcerers take the summoning spell, as the wording states all Chaos Wizards can take the summoning spell.

Chaos Sorcerers are a specific Warriors of Chaos unit.  Sorcerer-Prophets can not summon Daemons.

Quote:
Thanks for all the comments folks. I agree completely with you guys. People over on "The Warhammer Fourm" don't though.

People on TWF showing an astounding lack of common sense? I'm shocked Wink They can play with their version of the rules, as usual, and the rest of us will play Warhammer.

Wolf  Wrote:

Grimbold Blackhammer Wrote:

Wolf  Wrote:
Also can Chaos Dwarf sorcerers take the summoning spell, as the wording states all Chaos Wizards can take the summoning spell.

Chaos Sorcerers are a specific Warriors of Chaos unit.  Sorcerer-Prophets can not summon Daemons.


Grimbold Balckhammer, you are correct, however the wording in the New rules is:

All Chaos Wizards know the summoning spell.......

There is no Chaos Wizard profile in Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos and Beastmen.  Therefore using your strict logic to the wording the summoning spell cannot be used by any spell caster in all the Chaos Books.

I believe the reason it has been worded in such a manner is to allow as many spell casters to utilize the spell as much as possible.

You're right!  I was sure I read Chaos Sorcerer before I went to bed last night but when I double-checked this morning, the rule specifies Chaos Wizards instead.  So if indeed you play with the Chaos Ascendant rules (as a WoC player, I think it gives WoC a huge advantage they don't need so I advised my local folks against it!), summon away!

Now I need this book
I'd think we absolutely would not want to allow the Ascendant rules!  It allows us to summon Daemons (which is a nice perk).  But I wouldn't want to fight a Chaos Legions army even if I could summon!  Run a mono-God legions list so that your army is all unbreakable but lose the Unstable rule, statistically you'll get 2D6+3 models of core that are worth no victory points to place anywhere on the board once per game, you're opponent has to suffer through the comedy of Chaos table, field a Warshrine so rolls on the Eye of the Gods chart are 3D6 instead of 2D6 AND reroll one of those dice so you can pump out free Demon Princes all day long, and cherry pick the best units from three books, and have your army led by what is arguably the best General in the game.  Oh...and they can summon deamons too.  And that's all on top of their already being a top tier army already.  No thanks!
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