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Hello, this is my first post and I am a Dwarf collector from the Bugmans Brewery site.  I just wanted to get some info about the original Black Dwarf, the LE4 model.  Sorry if this is in wrong section

I read on your wiki that you class him as a Chaos Dwarf but I was wondering where you got this info from?  I can find no info saying hes a Chaos Dwarf other than the scenario in WD200 where he is classed as a Chaos Sorceror.  Another model is shown for this scenario and the original model is quite clearly not a Sorceror.  He is a pirate as far as I am aware and a take on Black Beard.  Now some may say well a pirate would be Chaos or Evil but I thought anything in that category wouldnt follow any rules or laws so the Pirates Code would not have been invented or followed if they were evil\chaotic.  Some say he looks chaotic but so does Kludz from "The Up The Wall Crew" and he isnt a chaos Dwarf.

The Black Dwarf was released at the same time as the slotta Chaos Dwarfs so why wasnt he included in the list?  He was put in the LE section where novelty figures such as Robin Hood Dwarf, Clint Eastwood and Santa Dwarf were placed.....

The only connection that I can see to the 2 figures is the name.  Can anyone clarify things for me please?

many thanks

Well if this is the miniature that your are talking about, I would think that the mutated belly and the tentacled thing there classify him as a dwarf that has definitely felt more of the raw energies of Chaos than he should have.

Personally though, this is the first time I have seen that miniature and I don't know anything about his background.

Of all thing that is holy i have to get one of them

I'm pretty sure anyone can use anything as any kind of model they want anyway.

Now, if you look at the relevant page (here) it doesn't actually say he's a Chaos Dwarf (I should know - I wrote it), just that he's a model from 3rd Edition and he's included for completists: since there was a Chaos Dwarf special character of the same name in White Dwarf, it seemed prudent to make mention of the original.

Now, to address some of the wider points in your post: perhaps you'd consider caring a little less about completely and utterly irrelevant things? This is toy soldiers - we don't have to provide "evidence" of anything. If you think he's not a Chaos Dwarf, then that's fine. You class him as whatever you want. We think he counts, if only because of the tenuous connection to a later character.

Don't write anyone off just yet, you've given people less than a day to respond!

I don't know of anything that tied the old Black Dwarf model to Chaos Dwarfs, but the character with the same name does confuse things.  Harvestmouse probably knows more, he's on Hand of Hashut.

How was Kludge a good guy?  Wasn't he part of a street gang?

It looks like Stuff of Legends have the Black Dwarf in the LE area because he was numbered as being LE4.  Are you saying he wasn't limited edition?

*lol*  Gee, mate -

a) tell these people to get a life!

b) ask the sculptor if it was meant to be a Chaos Dwarf or not. It seems to me that this is his website where you can also find an email link.

Ah, well, more fool them then. I knew someone was treating Warhammer like it was Serious Business. Apologies for assuming it was you. I can't imagine someone caring so much about exactly what an old model is (besides "a good sculpt" or "a bad sculpt") that they wouldn't use it in their armies.

Sounds like they're living the Dwarf attitude to the hilt!! We'd best be careful or end up in the Book of Grudges, Vol #XXII.

I wouldn't take 20 views and no replies as a diss, Perv. I don't think there are that many miniature historians around. I'm surprised that the readership here knows as much as they do about the metal history of WH models, but they have impressed me many times in the few weeks I've been active on the site.

That being said, the dwarf looks kinda evil to me...

/stirs pot

I found Perv's post on Bugman's Brewery as well, as being member of it. Reading all this trough, I think you guys are a little overreacting.

First of all, Perv just found out that the White Dwarf, THE White Dwarf, a model that excists in 5 different sculps and has about 330 magazines on his name, has a direct enemy, called the Black Dwarf, and large communities can't confirm what he is. Ofcourse he is excited, wouldn't you be when you've collected all excisting Chaos Dwarfs and found out the Dwarves have something special, relative to for example the Bull Centaur as well? That's not the main point why I'm replying here, anyways.

Perv says something about Bugmans Brewery. Reactions are "tell these people to get a life! " and "Ah, well, more fool them then. I knew someone was treating Warhammer like it was Serious Business.". Why, again? Is the hostility against Dwarves that big, that you immediately need to posts such comments to a community which you probaly don't even know? Just wanted you to realise that, no hostility from here to you (neither do I think this is the opinion of all of you), but found it a little overreacting.

You might want to look me up at the Brewery: you can find me under the name "Tungdil Goldhand" there. I still haven't came up with a nice original CD name yet, if you found my name a little weird. And yes, I do got some CD's for myself

Huh, no one here said that the people at Bugman's are idiots.

I think you see clearly in the quoted posts that these were just reactions to the phrase

Which, frankly, sounds quite ridiculous. If it's true.

But there is no hostility towards dwarf players. Many here actually collect dwarfs as well anyway.

I don't have any hostility towards anyone who has the same pastime as me: I just think anyone making a big deal about something as minor (even by the internal standards of the hobby) as whether a model is a Dwarf or a Chaos Dwarf is maybe forgetting that it is a hobby.

Plus, all this Serious Business-ing was mixed in with the implication that people were just collecting figures and not painting them or playing any games with them, which just weirds me out anyway. It's not often I meet people who care what a figure is rather than what you can do with it.

It's true. Still, it goes too far in my opinion to ask if a whole community would please get a life. It isn't anything personal really, not to you not to CD's or something, just wanted you to be aware of your words, since they don't make sense either. Now please continue searching to the Black Dwarf's origin, since I'm very interested what he's all about

I'm going to update the wiki.  Retro-actively changing history before your very eyes!

And it is done: Chaos Dwarf Catalog

This is excellent stuff - a bit of Law Dwarf vs Chaos Dwarf biffo over figure rights (I am being ironic in case anyone is feeling a bit hot under the collar about this).

There are a few figures around that have co-opted into the Chaos Dwarf Canon despite not offically being Chaos Dwarfs:

The Black Dwarf (cause he looks chaotic and there is a reference to a Chaos Black Dwarf)

This guy, as explained in his SOL listing
http://www.solegends.com/citle/citle1980...sDwarf.htm

Kludge from the 'Up the wall' gang, because again he looks chaotic
http://www.solegends.com/citle/citle1990...UpWall.htm

The dwarf ninja, who is supposingly undead, is also prized by CD collecters

I have always thought there were quite a figures from Dwarf/Chaos Dwarf ranges that crossed over: some of the Norse Dwarfs, particularly the berserkers, would not look out of place with 3rd ed CD figures, while the Rambo Dwarf from the CD range has absolutely nothing chaotic about him and looks more like a novelty figure for Law Dwarfs.

Still, always great to see discussion over old figures and remember, whether you worship the Ancestors or Hashut, it is the pointy eared elfs who must DIE!

Thanks pervfor the e-bay note.  it great to see guys from bugsman over here.

Just for that I am going to do a Dwarf army all with CD figures
That way I can at least use my old crossbow men

Unlikely. Hashut be praised in his.... ummm... "bullness"

I think the average CD collector/player/modeller/fan is a lot more stalwart in his/her dedication to CD than the average dwarf player. It takes a lot to be attracted to an army/race/line of models that is almost discontinued by its maker, disenfranchised from the rules, reviled by other participants in the hobby yet continue to support the cause.

In fact, I would wager that prolonged exposure to CD's result in a fascination with them, and a higher conversion rate of regular dwarf fan to CD fan. Of course,  I have no statistics to back this up, but I do know one or two people that are swaying to the dark side.

So Perv there a side of you that just don't want to be a mere dwarf player. Muuhahaha .
The turn is complete

Could be. Go to ulthuan.net and I defy you to tell me that you couldn't tell those guys play high elves. I have a massive high elf army. I like the army. The players of said army... Meh.