CDO Forums

As you know, hosting a website costs money. This is money I gladly pay!  However, looking at all the activity makes me wonder what kind of Ad revenue we could generate for the site if we decided to do so.  So I want to start a discussion about the inclusion of Advertisements on the site.  

Just so we are clear, this is a non-profit site.  I wouldn't aim to make any money through this.  Straight up, the cost of running the site is about 135 dollars per year.  Any money earned beyond this would most likely be kept to pay for the next year, etc, or optionally some kind of fund used for promotion of CDO, be it t-shirts or prizes, etc.

So in your reply please state whether you could support using advertisements on the site, and also I want to talk about the different types of ads available.

Pop-Ups are out of the question, I would never ever use pop-up ads.  Also out are ridiculous banner ads for random garbage, like smilies or SHOOT THE DUCK TO WIN flash banners.  The two options to consider would be sponsorship and Google Ads.

Sponsorship would be like, I contact a place like TheWarStore.com and ask if they want banners on our site, or other places like Gale Force Nine, etc.  Google Ads, I think we have all seen and know what to expect.

So I would appreciate your thoughts and input.  It might be an easy way to generate some revenue to help make CDO even better.  I mean since I put up the public Hit Counter about 3 weeks ago we already have more than 100,000 page views recorded.

So please discuss what your thoughts on Ads are, as well as what kind of ads you wouldn't mind on the site.  All other discussions on this topic are welcome including what you would think a CDO Fund could be used for.

Discuss!

Please read this entire thread before replying.  Many people are misinterpreting it, or coming to the wrong conclusions about the aim of this thread.

Thanks,
~Xander

I agree that all those supplies are something worth buying. Which is why having some ads to helpful products would be cool.

Not a bad idea, though I would have to find a place to have them made, then the whole © thing coems into play.  Plus, initial investment could be large.

I have fiddled with this idea myself.  Start up costs for this would also be a lot, and prohibitive.  Buying at retail prices then re-selling doesn't seem like a good plan.  It seems like it would be challenging to convince places that I was a store...   Good idea though, we should think this out more.

If revenue was ever accrued, I would most likely keep all the figures public so as not to hide anything.

Well, I pay happily, as I know Willmark would also pay.  But it's kind of a shame not to capitalize on the success of the website if we can have it paying for itself.  And a little spare money would help invest in making the site better.

Thanks for the comments guys!

The other thing is the amount of time.  I mean, when it comes down to it, $135 for some people is a couple hours of work.  No big deal.  The real cost is the hours and hours dumped into this site.  Granted it's a great site, but to make it self-sustaining when you get busy in a year or two, you'd need a way of facilitating it.

I think relevant google Ads done properly could be very good.

I would recommend against doing a whole store idea unless you're willing to potentially make it a full time job.  Also, where would the store be based?  What is the costs associated?  Why would people buy at CAD prices and have it shipped then just buy locally?

Ads can be easy, and unobtrusive.  Targetted to the WH members, I think it's quite a good way of doing business.

Another idea would be to have online gambling/slave fights.  People could make their slaves fight, outfit them, choose attack options.  We could set up a betting site on the side.  Kinda like chicken fighting, but without chickens.

Nice idea Torn but the shipping to most of the world would cost more than the membership package raised. A special edition CDO miniature would be a possibility though.

I'd be more than willing to contribute a few pounds a year to keep the site Ad free.The only type of advertising I'd want would be for related small businesses like Avatars of War which were just as much about directing member's attention to cool stuff we thinkthey'd be interested in as advertising. I don't mean greenstuff and hobby tools which most people can find. Personally I think that apart from this kind of thing ALL advertising detracts from a website

I'd look at maybe contacting small businesses for arrangements.  I know I've seen plenty of miniatures I'd love to buy but cannot.  Perhaps if they had more visability it would help their business (and possibly some stores near here could get them in)?  $5/yr membership or some cheap advertising would help.  We could even have portions of the ad that select a random (out of a set list) miniature to display.

I have no problems with text, unobtrusive ads.  They're not in your face.  Perhaps an option with users would be to pay for a donation to disable it for their user account if they didn't want to see them?

I'm not too excited by the idea of advertising.  Banners for hobby webstores would probably be alright, although I'm definitely against google ads.  I agree with AGPO that advertising takes away from a website.  

Things like shirts and paraphenalia might be interesting, were they tasteful and minimalist - ie no giant, flame-belching great tauri locked in mortal combat with elfish dragons against a lightning-torn sky on my t-shirts please.

I'm much more in favour of the donation system that Willmark mentioned. With hundreds of members, generating the money needed to keep us going would seem no problem at all. I'd really prefer if CDO would stay an ad-free zone.

If you do go with Ads, you could have the option to be Ad-free with a donation.  Unless you don't like the concept itself and not the actual ads.

We were looking into CD dice at one point.  If we could get enough pre-orders in for something like that (money up front!) then order a batch and a portion goes to the site.  maybe commision an original figure.

I'm not against the ads, although they would have to be miniature related.  Ad-free for a fee seems like a good idea if it is possible.

I don't see canadian online stores succeeding in this market.  It is much cheaper to buy from US.  You would be subject to some rules but looking into it might not hurt.

Anything going towards a store gets messy, and I don't think would turn a profit.  It wouldn't be cheaper, people could get the same stuff somewhere else for less from what I've seen.  Essentially you'd be importing in things from the UK to ship back to people all over the world.  Doesn't make sense.  Unless you were going for Canadians only, then it might be OK.

I appreciate all the feedback thus far.  I have never liked Ads very much myself, but what I am looking at now is the high level of activity on the site, and I know that could be used to help us, so I am trying to figure out how.  Small wargaming sites like Hasslefree, Heresy, Avatars of War, etc, seemed like the best alternative.  Perhaps I could program something that simply allowed you to disable the Ads for yourself if you want, but that doesn't require any money.

Donations are great, but I would never want a subscription style Ad blocking ala IGN.  

Stores and such are very tricky, because it's basically taking on a second job, you'd need warehousing space and time to distribute, etc.  The idea of a promotional Miniature is pretty neat, but again, time and costs for distribution are a factor.  

T-Shirts are an idea, but again, space, time, distribution, money down, are all a factor.  T-Shirts would almost be best left to the individual, we should find some really good online stores, and just have images that everyone can use personally (something we should get on!)

So my new question to you is, assuming you don't want Ads of any kind, how would you take advantage (for the benefit of CDO) of the large number of pageviews the site is receiving?

How about a gold membership? A one-off fee of say $5-10 and we could commision soe special tutorials/artwork and the like kept in a seperate section of the forum. Just a thought

So it all evens out!  Get money from ad revenue, or from people who pay not to see the ads

Advertising is fine so long as it is fairly discrete and appropriate to the site.

The problem with running a store is that the time you need to invest in the site would increase (unless you are going to get someone else to look after the store side of things).

Personally, I would think organising a banner advertisement is probably a lot less hassle than running a store.

I almost feel it necessary to close this topic as people see to be greatly confusing its intent.

1) I will never institute a mandatory membership fee.  Never.

2) I will never institute a "pay money to avoid advertisements" system. Never.

With those two out of the way let me go on to say, I am not asking at this point for donations.  I appreciate all the kind words about donating, but I am really not trying to hit any of you up for money.  I have a full time job, 135 bucks a year is not a cancer of the wallet.

I accept some of the responsibility for the misunderstanding as the thread name is misleading, I will adjust it.  I also said we could talk about any ideas you had, which is true.  But the way people are reading this seems to imply that I am suggesting that I really need money from you guys, or that I would impose money systems on you like some kind of tax.

So let me try to refocus this topic like I did on the previous page.  We have a large number of page views being generated by the site.  This much traffic ought to be utilized to benefit us.  Discuss, as Willmark has suggested, ways we could work this to our advantage.

I always felt that webrings don't really work. I also consider them a relic of what the internet was like 10 years ago, but correct me if I'm wrong with that. ^^ I use to link to this forum in the other forum where I moderate, and I was very happy to see it show up in the web statistic Xander put up some time ago.

Is there maybe a way to further increase the way in which we are linked to the other Chaos sites (i.e. Chamber of the Everchosen, and others)?

If you're looking for a not for profit deal, perhaps you could do an exchange of services.

Put up selective non-intrusive advertisements for like sites.  Stores that create miniatures, other WH sites, etc.  You could do a per site exchange, such as getting free merchandise to give away on this forum in contests, links from other sites to your site, etc.

well... firstly i wanted to write down: OBJECTION!

but... well... u are our master Xander, so any decisions in this matter u and only u should took... and as still as it only takes your time to make fun its good...

btw. I ALWAYS WILL SAY BIG OBJECTION TO ANY "GOLD MEMBERSHIP" PROPOSITIONS...

I still dislike the idea of Mr. Xander paying on his own. If I had the income, I'd chip in. If there were a donation section thing, I'd put in a little via that, hopefully others would too. Any extra could perhaps pay for adverts to here... Google ads, I guess I'm okay with, but only if we need the ads...

Perhaps if you continue to expand, improve the site and a lot of traffic comes through here, you can get measurements and get into talks with GW about potential customers.

If you can demonstrate enough interest in Chaos Dwarfs perhaps they'll release an army book.  Wishful thinking, but perhaps.  The easier it is for them, the better the chances will be.

What else can you do with traffic except generate income, or direct to the hobby world in general?  Perhaps you could work out arrangements with other stores to give you models (Chaos Dwarf type models) in exchange for traffic.