As I mentionned in the staff area, I received a rumoured list of books to be updated for a few years, and as things stand at the moment the Chaos Dwarfs are pencilled in for early-mid 2011.
The books due before them may change around (as I believe they will a little), but then again they may move CD back.
I think its useful for all of us that Jervis has given a fairly conclusive statement on it (that its not any time soon i.e. 2010 at the soonest), and by willmark posting it here we can all use it to make informed decisions.
Kind of what we all knew and expected but with a slightly longer explanation that I'm entirely happy with as far as I can be.
Of course I would like to see them sooner but wouldn't be happy if they were rushed. The fact they been removed from tourneys is something that doesn't flow well with me! I mean, atleast we were able to wield them before. Now hundreds of people have armies lying around that they can't use in GTs. Good thing we still use them in our home games!
But thanks for sharing Mark!
I find it quite impressive that Jervis responds with such a lengthy letter. I can imagine he receives something like a hundred letters and emails every week, so this is a very thorough answer from him.
As Willmark already said this comes as no surprise. And it also has a good sideeffect: we will have a lot of time having fun with our armies, so all the work we put into our miniatures at the moment won't be outdated by nifty new Citadel miniatures within the next year or so.
EDIT: Willmark, can you also include a copy of your letter to Jervis? Would be interesting to see which points he replied to and which ones were left out.
As the ravening hordes list is gone from GW's website,
Still there.
Because they don't have a miniatures range to support those rules. It would be pretty irresponsible to print rules for an army they don't actually sell, wouldn't it?
*cough* most of the units in Storm of Chaos *cough*
Great letter Mark!
I especially like the little 'threaths' in there.
@Boomstick
I think 8th ed warhammer will be 2012, I thought I read somewhere it will be 5 years as standard now.
From our point of view as hobbyists (and especially as CD fans), it seems AGES for us to get new books for whatever armies we collect, but for games development I could see their schedules being planned out for the next 6 years at least. Sure some things might be moved around, but from their perspective I'm sure they think 2011 is nothing at all. Especially as it will probably take at least 2 years to complete the project.
I think its 18 months for a regular update of a book start to finish, so what with ours being a new book; 2 years+ seems reasonable.
I understand what he has said and, as I mentioned in the staff section, I think it's strange that they say it is difficult to update an army and update it's models, when they have created OK and have updated armies such as WEs and,
further back, Lizardmen in such a manner as well. At the least, they could give us some answers to the problems involved with the pdf and 7th ed rules, then let us play in tournaments. Or even not let us play in tournaments.
It was a very nice letter indeed. Jervis makes an excellent PR rep. Hehe.
I will probably find room on the main site for this, as I think it is important for prospective players to know GW's stance on the army.
um... you payed "HARD EARNED" money for toy soldiers... GW has sold you toy soldiers...
they have your money... and you have their toy soldiers... the transaction is complete...
they owe you nothing further...
they have not asked for their toy soldiers back... so you cannot expect your money back...
but they can say: "hey we gotta game that you can play with your toy soldiers"
don't want to play it? well thats your business...
making a game that other people want to play? thats theirs...
well you still have the "original" game...
so your toy soldiers are not useless...
or not anymore useless than they were in the first place...
the game has changed and been improved on... but 5th ed still exists for those that want to play it...
if you would like to play the current game with the toy soldiers you spent money on over a decade ago...
you should expect to have to be creative...
if you would like them to take an interest in what you would like to see happen with the game...
you should expect to invest in the current game...
a part for a '85 Caprice Classic will not necessarily work in '95 Caprice Classic...
same product... same company... bad business?... I think not...
I think it was a fair reply form Jervis. Some points to note though
* Being committed to keeping them in the Warhammer world does not equal a commitment to them getting an army book. Fimir and Jabberwocks have had passing references in recent GW material but I'm not waiting for the army lists
* No real mention of the issue of the possible demand for Chaos Dwarfs. If it was perceived that there was a lot of money to be made then CD's would be pushed up the production ladder
* We are in a Catch 22 situation as well - we all want an updated list but it is possible that a new book could render large amounts of our current armies unusable.
I actually got interested in CD's because they were a bit unusual and obscure and anyone you meet playing them is usually good value. I don't want them to become the new mega-army of Cheese when they are updated.
it is totaaly unfair. they should re release cd instead of adding new races hint ogres,demons
Daemons aren't a new race. They have been in warhammer since the Realms of Chaos books came out and have lacked a full and proper army list and range of models since 5th edition. Ogres were introduced as a kit available to people playing any army, which is sensible practice from a business point of view. I would point out that if you browse every forum you will find people moaning that their army needs an update, then when the update comes they winge about their army being "nerfed."
What I do find annoying is GWs determination to remove anything not "strictly tournament" from the hobby. Cult of Ulric, Gnoblars, Chaos Dwarfs and the SoC lists are all fun to play in friendly games and make great modelling projects. modelling is my favorite part of the hobby. I don't like tournaments and I don't want an identical army to everyone else's. It doesn't do any harm leaving the list on the site. It might even sell a few BfSP boxes, and bearing in mind the point of the site is to sell minis that's got to be good.
Though I was hoping for Fimir crewing it [the hellcannon]...
* Being committed to keeping them in the Warhammer world does not equal a commitment to them getting an army book. Fimir and Jabberwocks have had passing references in recent GW material but I'm not waiting for the army lists
Lol Wilmark so was I!
@ Grumpas - I never knew there were Jabberwocks in warhammer. Anyone got fluff/pics?
Heh, let's keep this on topic guys!
Nice try Xander!
@ Deebo - We have plenty of other official GW artwork so a pic would be fine. The stat lines would be greek to me anyway. I don't think there's an issue with quoting fluff so long as you reference it.
but did they REALLY need the thier own army book?
did we?
as of 6th ed HoC there were more than twice as many daemon units as chaos dwarf units...
if "do daemons deserve their own book?" is somehow a valid question...
then yes... i expect the same logic to be applied to the CD situation...
if you believe the answer to Zorn's question is "no"...
then the answer to my question is "no +1"...
if and when a book IS released, will this 'niche interest' website still hold such a warm and fuzzy place in the hearts of so many? One can hope.
That's an interesting question. I would think that for some the fact that CD are seen as a kind of "outsider army" has a certain appeal, as no doubt does the modelling and converting that a CD army requires.
If GW backed CD with a new book and miniatures that may well lose some of those people, however there will also be a big influx of new CD players once the GW marketing machine swings into action to support the new book and miniatures.
If nothing else, Willmark's letter proves that CD aren't forgotten at GW HQ. That in itself is somewhat encouraging.
As always, I guess we just have to wait...
I'm not sure what's encouraging about it...
GWs "commitment" to CDs being a "core army" with "regiments in plastic" is a "catch 22" "under the new regime"...
jervis can can his commitment... just like he cans his responses...
there is nothing new here...
QUOTE Daemons aren't a new race. They have been in warhammer since the Realms of Chaos books came out and have lacked a full and proper army list and range of models since 5th edition. Ogres were introduced as a kit available to people playing any army, which is sensible practice from a business point of view. I would point out that if you browse every forum you will find people moaning that their army needs an update, then when the update comes they winge about their army being "nerfed."QUOTE
but did they REALLY need the thier own army book?
If you mean daemons then yes. People could not officially use the following units: Bloodcrushers, beasts of nurgle, fields of slaanesh, daemonic chariots, flamer units, daemonic heralds and lesser daemon command groups, not to mention the fact that an all daemon army from HoC sucked as a list. If you meant ogres then DoW had their own army book in 5th edition. Ogres are a kind of replacement for DoW ergo they gave them a book.