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Me and a buddy have decided to play a couple of games using special characters that we developed. To see if the model's rules are legitimate, we test the model against grimgor. If you win, the model is definatley broken. if you lose, chances are you can use it. The other player is allowed to veto the character if they think it is too cheap. I have made several characters, and he has vetoed them all. I am now hsowing this character to see what you think of it, tell me honestly if you think it is broken, or if you think it is fair. (also, ignore some of the names of abilities, im still thinking up better ones, also the name is in the name might be changed)

Karak, Hashut’s champion- 450 points
              M   WS   BS    S   T   W    I    A    LD
Karak    3       9      4     5    5    3     4    5     10
Magic items
Armour of the bull- grants a 1+ armour save, and a 5+ ward save
Axe of Hashut- grants killing blow, flaming attacks, and no armour saves are allowed
Book of Hashut- grants immunity to fire based attacks, and gives him magic resistance 2
Special abilities
Basic Rules
frenzy(can never lose it), cannot join a unit, immune to psychology, fear, hates dwarfs, must always be the army’s general.
Advanced Rules
Dwarf slayer- gets a 5+ killing blow against dwarfs only
Hashut’s anger- If Karak is ever killed, put a small template over his head. All models take a strength 4 flaming hit. After this, put a large template over his head. All units, friendly and unfriendly, under this template must take a panic check. If failed, they flee to the nearest table edge.
Hashut’s champion- If Karak ever fails a leader ship test, he is slain instantly. If he is slain in any other way, he may take a leader ship test at as if he failed combat(so if he was killed by artillery fire, how every many wounds was dealt is how much he lost by). If he passes, he comes back to life, if he fails, he stays dead.

And if you want to post a special character that you created for fun, feel free too.

Unless you price him at over 1,000 points, he is WAY too overpowered, in my opinion.

Reduce weapon skill to 7 or 8. 8 seems more in keeping with the title. The armour should either be 3+ armour save or 6+ ward save. Might be best to remove the Killing Blow on the axe, otherwise it's too uber. The Book of Hashut is fine as immunity to fire-based attacks. The MR(2) is unnecessary and doesn;t seem to be supported by fluff on Hashut, IMO. I see Hashut's followers as being calculating, not crazy, but Eternal frenzy sounds fine. Cannot join a unit is good also (removes some of his overpoweredness), shouldn't cause fear and I'd say have him more like a Slayer if you give him frenzy, I.E. Can't be the army general, instead of has to be.

Dwarf Slayer should be normal Killing Blow (it's removed from the axe after all), however, he already hates them, so it seems unnecessary. Maybe it should be Hatred against all enemies, but Dwarf Slayer is eternal hatred against Dwarfs. Completely remove Hashut's anger. Also, Hashut's Champion rule seems somewhat harsh... Remove it completely as well.

450 points for that may be slightly too much, but seems about right.

Just my thoughts...

Thanks for the input. I will look at what you said and probably change most of it. I will get rid of the hashuts champion rule, and get rid fo the magic resistance. I will change the weapon skill and get rid of the killing blow, also the killing blow against dwarfs. Also, the hatred idea I will change.  I wil make sure he cannot be the armies general, and also will change the hashuts anger rule a bit.

Khathakh Daemonheart: Master of Hell’s Forge

Daemon’s Stump, the dread fortress in the east of the Howling Wastes is home to the fearsome Daemon Binders who manufacture the magical devices that contain Bound Daemons as well as the terrifyingly powerful Possessed War Machines. The fortress is regarded with suspicion and distrust by most Chaos Dwarfs, for the Daemon Binders are thought to be extremely dangerous and insane, toying with powers that are too unpredictable to control – even for the masters of industry and slavery themselves. No Daemon Binder is distrusted more in the outside world, nor respected within Daemon’s Stump, than Khathakh Daemonheart who rules over the area of the fortress known as Hell’s Forge. In this dark smithy the Hellcannon was first perfected in the form it is best known and the mighty Daemon Prince Drz’kyath’n was bound forever into Bazhrakk’s black axe. Khathakh presided over all these dark rituals, aided by his unique powers which he owes to his monstrous invention – a heart of gromril inside his living chest that contains the essences of four Bound Daemons in each of its chambers. How Khathakh can have survived the process of replacing his actual heart is unknown, but now his body pulses with the Chaos energy of his slaves, each serving a different Chaos Power and constantly warring with one another while the Master of Hell’s Forge cackles madly, pondering over his next insane, daemon-powered invention.

Khathakh is the Master of Hell’s Forge, one of the most famous (or possibly infamous) of all Daemon Binders. He may be included in your army as a Hero choice and must be used exactly as described below. No additional equipment or magic items may be taken.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 4 3 3(4) 4 2(3) 2(3) 2 9

Points: 230

Weapons: Hand weapon.

Armour: Heavy armour.

MAGIC
Khathakh is a Level 2 wizard. He may use either the Fire, Metal, Shadow or Death lores from the Warhammer rulebook. Alternatively, he may use the lores of Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh (see Warhammer Armies: Hordes of Chaos).

SPECIAL RULES
See Daemon Binder.

MAGIC ITEMS

The Daemonheart
Khathakh has replaced his heart with a device of his own invention: a gromril heart with a daemon imprisoned in each of its chambers. His very lifeblood is infused with daemonic energies and, in an act of supreme skill, Khathakh has bound daemons from rival Chaos Gods to give himself immense power – albeit considerable risk to his health and sanity.

The Daemonheart contains daemons of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh and gives Khathakh the following abilities: +1 S, +1 W, +1 I (included in profile above) and allows him to select an additional spell (but does not increase his magic level). In addition, Khathakh gains a 5+ Ward save that may not be used against magical attacks, is Immune to Psychology, causes fear and his attacks count as magical.

However, the Daemonheart is a very dangerous device, for the entities imprisoned within it are constantly warring with one another and, given the slightest opening, will destroy each other in an orgy of infernal violence. Khathakh must take a Leadership test at the start of every turn. If the test is failed, roll a D6 on the following chart:

D6 Result

1-2: The daemons attack one another, but they remain evenly matched still and equilibrium is retained. There are no ill-effects.

3-4: The daemons rage against their prison, attack their master. Khathakh suffers a Strength 5 hit, with no Saves of any kind possible.

5: The daemons lash out in their fury, causing Khathakh to lose a wound with no Saves of any kind possible.

6: The daemons rip their way from their prison, destroying Khathakh in a grotesque conflagration of Chaos energy. Khathakh is killed instantly with no Save of any kind allowed, and any model in base contact suffers a Strength 5 hit.

(It might be best to start your own thread, Thommy H, then we can start a thread to collate all finished special characters.)

Glad ya took some of my advice, Karak.

Thommy H, it looks good, but I would say that you don't need to put the increased stats in brackets as there is nothing that can remove the heart (if a magic item/spell destroys it, he should die instantly). It clutters things unnecessarily. Maybe have him randomly select his first spell (given by the heart) from the lore of Tzeentch and he can choose his other two by their number (E.G. Choose two numbers, like 1 and 6), then randomly determine which Chaos lore on a D3. I don't think he should have the other lores as options, he's bound too much into Chaos and the Chaos Gods etc etc. Are the daemon bonder rules just that he may cast magic whilst he is wearing armour? I don't feel he should cause fear, nor have magical attacks. His hand weapon isn't magical and people can't see anything scary about him. Maybe have that chart be only if he loses combat... Otherwise, have the chart be 2D6 and the 1-2 would be 2-3, the 3-4 would be 4-9, the 5 would be 10-11 and the 6 would be 12... It just seems a little dangerous: fail a leadership test on your first turn, roll a 6, lose 230 points... However, with those changes, 230points seems about right.

It's the fairly standard format for upgrades like that in Warhammer army lists, that's all. It's shorthand for "yes, we included the upgrades already".

Well he does have four Daemons of the traditional Chaos Powers inside his body.

Also, I should probably explain how the character came about and how he fits in to my other rules. I have a full Chaos Dwarf army list, which he was written to fit into. In that army list, there are Magic Items that are "Bound Daemons" (Daemon Weapons, Daemon Thralls, Daemon Soul-Jar things [I forget the word], etc. etc.) which can be further upgraded by making the Daemon serve a particular Chaos God. In the case of some of the upgrades, they mimic the Marks of Chaos, and others have similar effects to certain Magic Items from Hordes of Chaos associated with one of the gods. So you get a basic ability with the Bound Daemon item, then an additonal ability if it's a Daemon of Khorne etc.

Anyway, Khathakh is unique because he has abilities from all four Chaos Gods (which is not otherwise possible - you can't have Bound Daemons of rival Gods on the same model) and his other abilities are what you'd get if you gave a single model a whole bunch of Bound Daemon Items. He's essentially the uber Bound Daemon bearer.

Outside of that context he doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Well, he is insane. The theme with my Daemon Binder fluff is of messing with powers that shouldn't be messed with. Think of the Hellcannon, after all: very powerful, but it can go mental if you roll a Misfire followed by a '6'. Same with Daemon Weapons for Chaos Warriors - it only takes a '1' for it to attack the bearer instead, so there is a precedent for anyone who tries to enslave Daemons having it backfire.

And, as I say, it's consistent with my other rules for Bound Daemons, where they all have some kind of risk of attacking their owner.

I know that's the standard format, but I mostly said it because the statline isn't aligned with the stat abbreviations.

I'm aware that he has the daemons inside his body, but surely that would mean he'd be trying to control those lores over the generic ones that aren;t directly assoicated with the daemons inside him. I'm completely confused as to the point of that big paragraph. Are you saying he can take this items as extra (if so, mention that in his rules)? Or just trying to say he's unique?  Because I guessed he'd be unique, but if you think about it, binding a daemon to a sword doesn't give you the abilities of the daemon, but gives you some of the powers (slightly different things. Abilities: punching with magical force. Comparative powers: being stronger.). Outside of that context, it made perfect sense until you said all that No offence.

I know he's insane and I know that things can go wrong with those weapons etc, but they don't obliterate themselves instantly is what I was getting at. I was just trying to point out it should be a LITTLE less likely that he dies instantly, otherwise I think people would be less likely to use him (if he were an official character)..

I apologise if this sounds rude, it isn't meant to as it is pure curiosity, but do you disagree with all of my (I considered constructive) criticism?

0-1 Overlord Zharkon Revlid: 235 PTS/Model

The Tower of Vorag. That great, crumbling fortress had first been constructed by the goblin and undead slaves of Vorag, the Ghoul King, who had bound souls and stones together to make it a truly formidable bulwark - this helped him little when a stray shot from a Goblin Spear Chukka pinned him to the mountainside, but it made the perfect point for a Chaos Dwarf garrison. Situated near the Sour Sea and the Crossing of Nagash, the Tower was fortified with great plates of brass and consecrated by reluctant Sorcerer-Priests of Hashut, so that it might better guard against another attack from the Great Necromancer, Nagash, who had crossed the warpstone-ridden waves and the Iron Teeth Hills to launch an assault against the Chaos Dwarfs several hundred years ago, at the height of his power.

But centuries are a long time, even to Dwarfs, and the other Overlords grew impatient, coming to believe that their investment in the tower had been squandered. So, slowly but surely, the commanding Despot of the Tower, a Chaos Dwarf named Zharkon Revlid, had his troops removed, trickled away to areas where they were deemed more vital. Revlid had been fairly influential at the time of his posting, but even that was not enough to stop the grinding bureaucracy of Zharr Naggrund.

Not that the commander of the Tower tried to prevent this – he was too busy endlessly tinkering with his obsession, the delicate interplay of forces between gears and levers. While his army was pulled out from under him, Revlid sat in his chambers and meddled with intricate clockwork mechanisms, with purposes ranging from the obscure to the esoteric. Whenever his tiny machines failed, some small and easily-correctable fault in their layout showing itself, he would fly into a rage, smashing the gears from their bindings and starting again, wasting years of work.

Indeed, it was not until the undead forces of a fell Strigoi Lord smashed into the Tower and took it for their own that Revlid began to take notice. Escaping from the highest reaches of the tower in a mechanism designed for wading in swamps, Revlid could only watch as his fortress was wrecked and looted, the ghouls and beasts that followed the vampire wrecking his workshops and smithies with wanton abandon. His anger, normally so explosive and petty, focused into a white-hot cone of fire, and he began to rebuild his forces, as patiently as he would a tiny clockwork engine.

Vowing to retake his lands, the mad Overlord broods over his loss, devising plan after plan, discarding each of them as imperfect, even as they are used to defeat the foes that assault him as he travels from place to place. Soon he will have a perfect plan, one that cannot fail, one that will work like clockwork, and then he will return to the place that was stolen from him by lesser minds, and rule over it as a clockwork king.

Equipment: Shamshir of Zormogandr, Daeozh Plate, Shield
Special Rules: Unyielding, Implacable, Hate Undead, Like Clockwork

Like Clockwork
Zharkon is well-known for his love of clockwork, orderly and perfect in its timing. As such, anything (or anyone) that disrupts his battle-plans provokes a maddened rage within the Overlord, which he takes out on both the enemy and those unlucky fools who have thrown a wrench in the clockwork of his mind.
All friendly units within 12" of Zharkon must re-roll any failed Break or Psychology Tests that would otherwise cause them to flee.
Once any friendly unit fails this re-roll the above ability is lost (for all units), and Zharkon Hates all enemy units.

Shamshir of Zormogandr
A weapon from the original treasure horde of the Ghoul King Vorag, this curved blade is studded with dark emeralds, each one containing a vile spirit of venom and plague. The peculiar nature of the gems makes the Shamshir a charm against magic, as demonstrated in the first War of the Daemon Crown.
MR (1). In addition, the wielder has Poisoned Attacks that automatically wound on a To Hit roll of a 5 or a 6.

Daeozh Plate
Commissioned from one of the daemonsmiths that frequent the outposts and cities of the Chaos Dwarfs, this suit of armour is still hot from the forge, brought into being by daemonic flames that still reflect in its blackened surface, flickering and leering between gently glowing runes of binding.
4+ Armour Save. The wearer has a 5+ Ward Save that is ignored by Magical Attacks, and (in addition) the wearer is immune to all Flaming Attacks.

No, what I was saying was that he exists in a wider context that no one here has ever seen - imagine someone posted the rules for a Bretonnian special character and you didn't know anything about Knightly Virtues: the rules wouldn't make that much sense to you unless you'd read those other rules that describe the "standard" versions of the character he's based on.

In this case, Khathakh is a Daemon Binder (a troop type that doesn't exist in the official list) with a particular class of Magic Item (that also doesn't exist in the official list). He's unique in the same way that a special character with all the Marks of Chaos would be unique - you can't normally do it, so that's what makes him special. Similarly, Khathakh has a combination of abilities that it would not normally be possible to get in my Army List. The abilities look random to your eyes (why +1 Strength? Why have access to those Lores?) but they're things you could buy on an individual basis in my Army List - Khathakh just has lots of them.

Only because I know how and why I built him this way, and your ideas don't fit in with the existing mechanisms in my Army List. Obviously you haven't seen that Army List, so it's not fair for me to hold that against you, so the ideas are fine...just not what I'd do (Khathakh as he is is what I'd do).

This does tell me I should probably post my version of Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs sometime though...

Revlid, how many points is your character? (I haven't read the fluff as my eyes currently sting somewhat, sorry.) His "Like Clockwork" rule: does the rule stop working for ALL units when ONE fails or is that unit no longer able to take advantage of it? Just a little wording, methinks. As for his weapon, I would think either have it MR(1) or normal Posioned Attacks... Usually, MR is on armour/trinkets is all I'm thinking. Especially when it's that powerful (unless you included some overly complex rule about breaking said gems...). Armour looks good, especially since it's Ward doesn't work against magic. Might need to reorder what it says because it looks like it ignores immune to fire... Just grammar there Sorry I'm so pedantic...

Thommy H, I just meant that it could be seen already... Sorry for the misunderstanding. It may need a little rewording about being a Daemon Binder, as the link implies he can take items. Otherwise, I agree. I can understand +1S etc etc, it's just the generic lores didn't seem to fit so well as being able to use any of/all of the Chaos lores. Just personal opinion. Also, I think if I knew your list, then I'd most likely agree with the reasoning of it all, otherwise take my criticism as him fitting into a generic list.

Thanks for the help in clarifying my stuff! It may be pedantic, but frankly if more GW Designers were pedantic then the army books would be of a higher quality!

'Like Clockwork' clarified.
'Hates Undead' added.
MR (2) dropped to MR (1).
Immune to Flaming Attacks clarified.

His points cost is next to his name.

No worries, Revlid. Sorry if it did seem pedantic, but I only said it because you asked me to If people want criticism, I shall give it as best I can (constructively). Looks much better now and sorry I hadn't seen the cost... I'd say either that or 240 points, but that's because it's late. Test him out against some other heroes of the same sort of cost and then playtest in friendly games. Let me know how he goes