Ok, a couple of days ago i came up with a great idea. I was thinking about how chaos dwarves where not legal in tournaments unless the host says other wise, I really didnt want to waste all of my converting time (which i finally finished a couple of models, and will hopefully post soon, as i have been very busy). so i then looked at the books of all the warhammer armies to look at rules, and randomly thought up using chaos dwarf models for dwarf rules. All you would have to do it convert normal dwarfs of one class, and call it that class. Please give input on the idea.
Sorry to break it to you, but this idea is already wide spread over the site :/
But it is a great idea though, keep 'em coming.
It is an oft-thought idea, so have a little look around the website for some ideas on how to pull this off. The problem arises with the lack of hobgoblins and bull centaurs etc on the list, but otherwise, it can work.
It's certainly a sensible idea, and since you arrived at it independently of the site you should be pleased with it.
The fact that others have also reached the same conclusion does not in anyway invalidate your original idea, which is certainly a good one if you happen to enter tournaments where they don't allow the proper CD army list to be used (although you may want to check how they feel about wysiwyg and counts-as models beforehand).
well, thinking back, i probably should have looked at the other posts first, but I have a basic idea that will work for all models in the army. All you really need to do, or at least for it to fit in my army, is to cut of the beards and face, then add masks. For instance, right now i am converting the king.
wallacer is correct. I didn't mean to demean your idea in the slightest. What will you do about hobgoblins, orcs, black orcs, goblins and bull centaurs then? Also, how about mounts? (This is intended to sound as though I'm putting you down, I'm just curious as these are the most difficult.)
Dont worry, I never thought it as you putting it down. For orcs and such, i am thinking of greenstuffing shackles on there legs, and using chain to put it together, but to make it possible to take them off of the tray 1 by 1. for hobbos, I am just putting marauder shields on them, because I think it looks awsome. and for mounts, I dont really know. I bought a great taurus for 8 bucks from a friend of mine, and I also made something that I call the "Not so great taurus" for fun, by using az war pony and making all the hair dreadlocks. I havent really been thinking about what to do for bull centaurs, because I will probably never use them in a game.
Sorry, you misunderstood me, I meant what will each represent in game? However, sounds good modelwise! If you put orcs on 20mm bases, they can be normal dwarf warriors without upgrades (the shackles slow them
) and the hobgoblins could be the same principle (then your Chaos Dwarf warriors could be the more elite Dwarf units, like Ironbreakers as Immortals and Longbeards as the normal CD warriors etc...). Great Taurus could be a Gyrocopter, bull centaurs could be slayers (representing two each and taking up smaller bases) or not included. No mounts for hobgoblins might be an easier way to go as well.
I have thought about what I can use to represent, but mostly I am just gunna use dwarfs. The only think that I could think to use otherwise would be hobgoblin bolt throwers. I am going to look into all the models, and might even use sneaky gits as miners, but that is as far as my thinking is going right now.
Fair enough
Well, let us know how the army comes along. Have you got an army list planned to which you can build your models around?
I collect Dwarfs as well, so if you want any feedback on your list feel free to post.
I made quite a balanced anti daemon list a while ago. Served me reasonably well in some games.
The Dwarf list is quite good for theming generally, so theming it to also be a CD list opens up a lot of interesting possibilities (CD miners, berserkers (slayers) etc). It would be well worth making the list competitive before deciding how to represent the different parts as CD.
The two bolt throwers can't have the same runic combination anyway, so you may as well scrap one (giving you an extra 105 points).
Take out the Slayer Musician, but keep the SB. Maybe have some be Troll Slayers as well? The Dragon Slayer hero isn't 100% necessary, that could free up some more points.
The Ironbreakers don't need MR(3). 1 or 2 will be enough. That frees up a few more points.
I haven't got the book to hand, but that's at least 300 points gone. The Gyrocopter could be removed instead or as well as the Dragon Slayer...
What core units would you want to take is the main question? Personally, I always start off by making a hero (I then end up making all of the characters anyway, he he he) and then the basic requirement of core (tooled up as I wish with extra models if I wish), then fill in the rest. If you try it this way, you might find it easier
I used my CDs as Dwarfs solidly for over a year, I think I got the hang of them eventually
Heres my 2 cents:
The Lord is very pricey, Shieldbearers, Great Weapon and Rune of Stone is usually enough. As he is so slow, he rarely sees more than 1 combat per game, and those points can be better spent elsewhere. The best thing about him is his Ld of 10.
Swap 2 Runes of Fury for Rune of Cleaving and Master Rune of Swiftness on the Dragonslayer, or he will die annoyingly fast, due to low Initiative and no armour. 4 attacks at S5 striking first should keep him alive.
Personally I don't choose a Runic Battle Standard, I give my BSB a 1+ save, WS7 and Strength 6, but this is personal pref.
16 Thunderers is very wide, they will take up a lot of space, and are expensive. 10 is usually enough. Maybe get some more and go for 2 units of 10, plus some warriors for core choices? They can always reform and help out in combat.
Slayers work best as small units, as you have a Dragonslayer I would split them into 2 units of 10 each. These guys are great for holding up superior enemies while you move to flank. Its always worth throwing the Dragonslayer into the flank of a combat to stop the enemy running you down should your units flee.
Don't forget you cannot have the same combo of Runes on both Bolt Throwers. Engineers are a must for them too (excellent conversion opportunity
)
I prefer Hammerers over Ironbreakers but this is an age old debate. Its personal preference again. The Lord's Royal Blood rule saves you buying Hammerers a Rune of Courage, plus with a BSB nearby they aint going nowhere
The one thing I really learned is that Organ Guns rock. They just do. Nothing is better than rolling a big fat 10 S5 armour piercing hits on that unit of annoying High Elves.
Ultimately, if you want a competitive force, the Anvil of Doom is a must, as Dwarfs are simply too predictable without it. The Anvil allows you to take the initiative in the Movement phase (Dwarfs with a 12" charge
) as well as slow down nasty enemy units, buying your shooters more time. It really magnifies the strengths of the army.
You will need a Runesmith, give him some Runes of Spellbreaking and a great weapon and shield. He makes a decent leader for warrior units.
All this is just my opinions of course, hopefully it may help
I may discuss Dwarfs on a CD forum.
..
Dragon Slayers are mostly found quite useless with other Slayers, as they don't make up their points. A good way to use them is to field 'em 'naked' (with the Slayer Axes option to choose either 2 HWs or a GW, though!), and let them gaurd something - warmachines, for example, or just to be an annoying speedbump (I once held up a bretonnian unit for the entire game this way!).
Take 2x 10 Thunderers, with shields. That's a classic one for me, but it'll also be way more effective as there is a better chance of 10 thunderers hitting targets than 16. Shields? This makes them nearly warriors (light armour instead of heavy), and you'll see they aren't vunerable when it comes to CC
.
Get a normal Thane or a Runesmith; your magic defense lacks. Check Bugman's for 'Thanes of Pain', they're great.
19 Giant slayers?! What a waste! I guess this is your personal choice, but I'd have ONE giant slayer, MAX.
I'd add one cannon there, as you have a special slot open, but you'll have to see if it fits in.
You can swap a Gyro or FC for an OG, adds much more fire power.
Err .. anyway.
This is what I'll also be doing; using CD models for a Dwarf army. I can't wait to field them
If you search the rest of the site there are some pretty comprehensive Counts As rules for using choas dwarfs to represent Empire, Dwarfs, Chaos and Dogs of War
As noted we have gone over this several times. We have tried to make a number of "best fit" scenarios. Problem is: there are no best fits when it comes to our list.
Despite the obvious drawbacks of the dwarf list is the best choice for a "count as", but by no means a great one.
Karak, well done for coming up with the idea yourself. It has also been mentioned though
Still, keep thinking
For example: a set of shieldbearers could be a powered walker (like Astragoth's).
At least your wizard will not run away in battle . like a thame could
How about a wizard that is starting to be petrified from the legs up, and he is on a shield bearer? (the only problem is that he would be a dwarf thane or lord, but it would work model wise, and wouldnt be too bad rules wise)
Check out my army blog, there is a petrified sorceror in there.