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Another quick rules question...

-> If the Hobgoblin Wolfrider entry included something like the goblin entry and said that "if they take shields and armour they lose Fast Cavalry status"... Would this mean that a double ranked (of 5 models each rank), would get a rank bonus (when taking both light armour and shields), unlike their fast cavalry counterpart?

Please don't jump all over me and call me a rules lawyer this time Happy

.nick
Good question.

I would say yes, as they have changed from being fast cav to being medium cavalry, as denoted by the loss of the fast cav special ability.

In the interests of fairness, though, I think it would probably pay to point out to your opponent that they have been equipped in such a way as to negate their fast cav ability.

I assume your question is based more on the loss of fast cav ability with LA & S in the O&G book, as I don't think this is actually written into the CD army list (although it probably should be).
Thing is, I'm hoping to prepare a small list on a sheet of common sense changes/updates to the Chaos Dwarf army list... That the opponent can look over before the game and decide if he agrees or disagrees with them, and we can use the ones he agrees with or doesn't agree with...

The changes would be small, like losing fast cav when hobbo wolfers have shield & LA...

and bull centaurs being used as infantry for weapon purposes...

So, I am deciding how to arm my H2H Hobbo Wolfers... whether or not they should have shields.

and I was thinking if I give them shields I'd actually WANT to lose fast cav, so they could get the rank bonus (since you don't really need to be changing formations with a H2H cav unit).

Don't tell me that's rules lawyering, it's a small change for updating purposes. Something the opponent will have to agree with, for it to be used or not.

.nick
From memory, I think that is how it works with wolf riders in the O&G book.  Granted Hobgoblins are bigger than Goblins, but even so I think the loss of fast cav ability with LA & S should probably apply to them as well.
Wallacer is right they probably should. Hobgoblins have their own rules though don't they, they aren't 'see Orcs & Goblins entry' so they could get away with having a 4+ save and still counting as Fast Cavalry.

Quote:
Hobgoblins have their own rules though don't they, they aren't 'see Orcs & Goblins entry' so they could get away with having a 4+ save and still counting as Fast Cavalry.


Yeah but I think Che is talking about a little house rule that adjusts it to be more in line with newer lists, where a 4+ save means you lose fast cav status:

Quote:
Thing is, I'm hoping to prepare a small list on a sheet of common sense changes/updates to the Chaos Dwarf army list... That the opponent can look over before the game and decide if he agrees or disagrees with them, and we can use the ones he agrees with or doesn't agree with...


I'd be fine with it myself Happy

Loosing the fast cavalry rule by taking both armor options is a nice idea (in theme with current rules), and if they stop being fast cavalry they will obviously get the rank bonus.

I u want to update hobgoblin wolf riders to current rules it might be a good idea to give them an option for short bows instead of normal ones, since all fast cavalry use the shorter version i believe. It is also how the wolf riders  were originally armed in the 5th edition army book. But since u want to make them a fighter unit I suppose it won't really matter. It's just an idea.

Piccolo Wrote:
I u want to update hobgoblin wolf riders to current rules it might be a good idea to give them an option for short bows instead of normal ones, since all fast cavalry use the shorter version i believe. It is also how the wolf riders  were originally armed in the 5th edition army book. But since u want to make them a fighter unit I suppose it won't really matter. It's just an idea.


Hmmmm, that is very curious. Because it would be a pain for me to model the shortbows in the goblin sprue to be normal bows anyway.... Did hobbos really use shortbows on wolfs but normal bows when infantry in the original WDP:CD book?   If so, I'm going to add that to the list of updates, like you said... (and model them with the shortbows that come with the goblin sprue.... they aren't even nearly as short as the night gobbo bows anyway)

Of course, if me and the opponent agree that they are using shortbows, it would also make sense to shave off a point for each bow (instead of 2 points for a bow, it would be 1 point for a short bow)

.nick

CheTralfara Wrote:
Did hobbos really use shortbows on wolfs but normal bows when infantry in the original WDP:CD book?  


yes they did, I have the army book right here and it says I can buy short bows for 1 point per model. Also from a technical angle I think it would be hard to use full sized bows while being mounted.

in defense of bows.. A bow is a bow is a bow. Regardless of long bow or short bow reference, there is no need to make different sized bows on yoru models
Che, your common sense suggestion is not only in line with the current rules, it is in line with older rule sets as well (5th ed used to define fast cavalry as any cavalry with an Armour save of 5+ or worse).  6th ed gave certain units the fast cavalry rule , and thoses complied with the older rule, by not giving any options to get better than a 5+ save for fast cavalry, except of course for our beloved Hobgoblins.  

Now, as to the idea of having wolf mounted hobgobbos take shortbows only, personally I'm neutral on the subject, but would rather that they kept their bows.  Of course I would much rather that they be able to take spears like their feral cousins (Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz) -
Don't forget about the Kislevites, they shoot regular bows from horseback and they are fast cavalry as well.
As do Bret Mounted Yeomen and DOW light cavalry.
and skeleton light horsemen in Tomb Kings army.

My bad, apparently there are quite a few light cavalry units that use normal bows.
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