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Im thinking about next years season and I want to bring back my Granicus-themed army. It goes like this:

BC lord - Arm of Furnace and great weapon
BC bsb - Gazrakh and Sword of Might
BC hero - Great weapon HASH
Lvl2 with 2xDispel

20 CDs FC
15 Blunders
15 Blunders
29 Hobs LASH FC
10 Wolves LASH FC
10 Wolves LASH+Bow FC
10 Hob archers
10 Hob archers

2 BTs

6 BC HA, FC - War banner
6 BC HA, FC

Set-up
BC hero with LASH wolves. Mage with Hob LASH. Hence I get 7 units with ldr 9. All of the rest are support. The two BC units are basically extra-wounds and attacks for the lord and the bsb.

The total is right now at 2249 but I can tweak a lot of things.

A Bull Centaur themed list! I never thought I'd see one of these! I approve! Not many holes I can pick out either ...

You seem to have a very fast list going, why not make room for a Taurus for some extra punch?  I'd drop the BSB for it.  Not sure how you want to use all this maneuverability... If the Wolves and BCs are for flanking, who is taking the charges? 15 BBs or 20 CDs?  Not really enough ranks to take charges IMO.  I might drop the BBs in favour of CDs with HW/S.  Bulk up your units to 25 so they can take a charge.  Have like 3 CD units of 25, then your 4 Cav units and your Taurus for flanking and eating crew. I'd probably drop the Hob Archers... what is your plan for them?

What's your plan for your army, how do you intend to win?

>You seem to have a very fast list going, why not make room for a Taurus for some extra punch?

Honestly, I would love to. But the list is for either moderated tournaments or tournaments with comp scores. Either way the taurus is pretty much banned - especially if he isnt the general (ok, with only bcs and mages he would be)

> I'd drop the BSB for it.  Not sure how you want to use all this >maneuverability...

Obviously this has a lot to do whom Im facing. But the "ideal" set-up would be to field (from left-to-right):
wolves with bc-BB-Hob/mage-CDs-BB- lord+bc - bsb+bc - bowwolf

With the archers and BTs spread out a bit behind the line and preferably to the left. The bow-wolves would possibly be deploy in a single file in front of both bc regiments and a lot of other stuff as well. Hopefully they wont fail their first animosity test OR if they panic that is just fine - either way the open up for my BC-units.

Basically, Im trying to mimic Alexander the greats victory at Granicus. I bet you didnt know that he and his companions really were bull centaurs...

>If the Wolves and BCs are for flanking, who is taking the charges?

I will have problems with:
Really fast stuff.
Nasty flying units that wont panic.
Magic-competent armies.
Elite-armies that dont fear the combination of blunder fire-zones and wolves-centaur retalliation.

>15 BBs or 20 CDs?  Not really enough ranks to take charges IMO.  I >might drop the BBs in favour of CDs with HW/S.  Bulk up your units >to 25 so they can take a charge.  Have like 3 CD units of 25, then >your 4 Cav units and your Taurus for flanking and eating crew. I'd >probably drop the Hob Archers... what is your plan for them?

Hob archers are for:
table quarters
re-directing
march-blocking stuff that is "coming back"
possibly shooting (probably wont hit)
possibly scout-hunting (harrassing is a better word)

>What's your plan for your army, how do you intend to win?

I have to break through with my bull centaurs. So Stubborn opposition is bad. Stubborn with bsb is really really bad. Unbreakable is right out.
But, everything else, try to break through!

Basically, I have to be in hth in turn 2. Or Im dead.

My thoughts are these:
Bull lord is quite good at fighting but he has "only" ldr 9 and if he is the general then everything else quickly losses his leader-bonus. It is quite silly (IMHO) to include a hero solely for the ldr 10 and its not very popular. Oddly enough, "people" dont seem to be as much bothered with racial mixing (like putting a mage with hobs or a bc hero with the wolves).

Ive played in a few tournaments and I usually bring 4 units of dwarfs (2 each), 4 machines (ES, DR and 2x BT). Maybe 5 lvls of magic. Or 4. Or 6. 1 unit of wolves - maybe two. Some archers. At least one block of LASH hobs. Maybe some gitz. Maybe some bulls (5-6 with few or no command models).

For some reason this army gets rated extremely low. The shaker is hated. The blunders are hated (so your advice about ditching them for more warriors "makes sense"). Nobody likes magic. So, if Im going to loose Im going to loose in style!

My first thought was to have 2 units of 10 bulls but then I just had to have this bc hero leading the extra wolves... and... I still "need" 50 % core (its a goal I wont ever drop).

My back-up army idea is to drop the blunders and the extra level on the mage. Have hobgob blocks "receiving" the charges as you put it and get a few 10 strong "detachments" of CD warriors with or without great weapons.

The jury is still out on that one though. But my current list looks fun and sporting. I really like it!

Thanks for your input!

10 US CDs w/ GWs supporting HGs sounds like a cool idea.  Never tried it myself, could be effective.  The advantage to having CDs take a charge is there T4 and 3+ AS.  They can stand their ground in the first round of combat and (with a hero) can fall back on their Ld10 even if they lose.  They on your turn you counter charge with the CDs w/ GWs.  On the flip side, CDWs are a lot of points.

I have never armed my Hobbos with stuff, how many points is a Hobbo with LA/SH?  50% core indeed.  Cool stuff, great feedback on my feedback.

>10 US CDs w/ GWs supporting HGs sounds like a cool idea.  Never >tried it myself, could be effective. 

Its one of those things that look very tempting on paper. Ive never tried it either. In a way, it would be very "in style". You jeopardize your slaves and if they hold - well, you win - and if they dont - well, you dont care.

>The advantage to having CDs take a charge is there T4 and 3+ >AS.  They can stand their ground in the first round of combat and
>(with a hero) can fall back on their Ld10 even if they lose.  They on >your turn you counter charge with the CDs w/ GWs.  On the flip >side, CDWs are a lot of points.

Ive never seen a situation where the CDs have held a charge that the hobs wouldnt. The thing is that if WS3, T3 and AS 4+ plus zillions in CR isnt enough then maybe the dwarfs arent up for it either. Eg against big bulks of fear-causers or any other really elite thing/things.

My 25-strong hobs have broken (when charged) longbeards, wild riders and slaanesh chosen knights. None of these were "expected victories. The hobs have a HUGE advantage - they dont have to wound anything. But whatever charging them expect at least a few casualties. And they still need 3+ (or surprisingly often 4+) to hit them and at least 2+ (again, surprisingly often 3+ or 4+). Not to mention the fact that statistically a LASH hobbo saves 1/6 wounds caused by a khorne chosen knight.

Is it just me or is it REALLY fun to say LASH hobbo?

>I have never armed my Hobbos with stuff, how many points is a >Hobbo with LA/SH?

4 each. So twice the sum of nekkid ones but more than twice the efficiency - IMHO.

> 50% core indeed.  Cool stuff, great feedback on my feedback.

I just wish I could vary my dwarfs a bit more. Xbows, beserkers, boar centaurs, chariots. Dont really care what. They are a bit restricted right now.

Since you gave me good feedback it would be darn nasty not to hand something back.

Thanks for your time!