This is the list i usually use with a couple of tweaks added:
Chaos Dwarf Hero - 94
Great Weapon
Armour of Gazrahhk
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer - 150
Level 2
Power Stone
Dispel Scroll
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer - 150
Level 2
Power Stone
Dispel Scroll
24 Chaos Dwarf Warriors - 319
Full Command
Shields
Great Weapons
War Banner
2 x 14 Blunderbussiers - 380
Blunderbuss
Champion
10 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders - 130
Light Armour, Shield
2 Death Rocket's - 160
Earthshaker - 110
My main Plan is to March up the board with the warriors and blunderbussiers, whilst i bombard my enemy with some magic and shooting, the earthshaker slows down one half of the board whilst the wolf riders march block the other and/ take out enemy war machines.
Good plan/list?
To be honest i dont really think my lines are "that" weak, a horde of hobgob's yes but a unit of dwarf warriors and some flankers is enough to clear up what is left of my enemy.
Is it too small or is it becuase i do not have a bsb?
Mainly, it's kinda of small.
A 1500 goblin horde or other mass armies will overun that no problem. I can fit two units of 20 warriors and 2 units of 20 blunderbusses with full command into 1500 points no problem, and have room left over for more. Put simply, that army just looks like it won't stand up to a furious multiple charge, and that;s something you always need to be worried about.
I see . . .
Chaos Dwarf Hero - 94
Great weapon
Armour of Gazrahk
Chaos Dwarf Battle Standard - 130
Armour of the Furnace
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer - 115
2 Dispel Scrolls
23 Chaos Dwarf Warriors - 308
Full Command
War banner
Great Weapons + Shields
18 Blunderbussiers - 204
24 Chaos Dwarf Warriors - 246
Full Command
Shields
10 Wolf Riders - 130
Shields + Light Armour
2 Death Rockets - 160
Earthshaker - 110
Well i have cut out the second blunderbussier unit and swapped a wizard for a bsb, is this a bit better?
its better now... but you havent addressed the biggest point sink... the death rockets...
one death rocket in any list is too many... but 2 is off the map...
drop one and the great axes to get a unit of 25 orc boyz or sneaky gitz...
I'd change your characters to get point for a command on this unit...
put the armor of gaz on the BSB, drop the AoF...
give your general the enchanted shield and heavy armor... 2+ save, 74 points...
Wait....~Blinks~ I'm confused. How is 1 death rocket in an army list too many? I have GREAT luck with my death rockets!!! Since they work as a stonethrower they allow no armor save period. Yeah you may have the random factor with the hit and misfire both rolled at once, but still....death rockets are cheap and very nice for what they can do. Causing panic checks and whittling down units.
Now...I do see a weakness in that he doesn't have enough basic units of troopers. Blunderbusses are nice in 1500 point games, and I can still field 2 units of 20. The complaint I have is that he doesn't have enough warriors.
Hmmm....two sorcerors seem fine to me. Magic helps in a 1500 point game. But the 2nd list looks decent too, he'll just be weak in the magic phase and against certain armies that will hurt. But he has more troops to use so that is good as well
death rockets are overpriced for a stone thrower and come with one less crew...
there are plenty of lists that work... this one can be improved... and that is what this forum is for...
death rockets are not awesome... they are guess weaponry... and scatter weaponry...
neither the death rocket nor the earth shaker will ever make their points back in actual kills...
the earthshaker's movement and missilefire hinderance more than makes up for that fact...
the deathrocket's lack of crew makes it worse...
think about what this list does to a six dice magic phase... with only a moderate amount of defense...
it......... shuts........ it....... down.... so too shall your opponent...
If you don't bring 8 dice, bring 3
- Olde Warhammer Proverb
Wait...never make their points back? Hunh!?!?!
Earthshakers have the added effect of slowing movement, no shooting from ground troops, and warmachines can only fire on a 4+. How the HECK do they not make their points back?
Secondly, there is a HUGE benefit to having only 2 crew. The machine is not slowed down at all if only one member of the crew is left. A death rocket can continue to fire every single round so long as 1 crewman is crewing it.
Three: I ALWAYS make my points back with my Earthshaker cannons and death rockets. My Guess is always good, I am 95% spot on with my guesses all of the time, and I almost always roll a direct hit with my Earthshaker cannons and Death Rockets. The addition of D6 wounds and Str 8 hit right under the hole makes it ideal for taking out large monstrous creatures that people field. In addition, whatever is hit by them does not get an armor save if wounded. Why is this bad? I am just confounded by your logic, and I apoligize but it...just doesn't seem clear to me from your viewpoint.
Secondly, they use a Cannon misfire table. The machines are rock solid. Why NOT take them?
I admit your logic seriously confuses me. It really and truly does Metro. These War Machines are part of the staple of the Chaos Dwarf army and indeed our history....why not take them? They are awesome and for me, always make more then their points back.
Units work in conjunction with the army as whole. Not alone.
again... you sir cannot be helped...
Meh...whatever dude...I think I'll just happily label thee Troll and move on.
~Sighs, shakes head, and looks for an ignore button~
I agree with Metro on the Death Rockets actually, it really is just a overpriced stone thrower with two crew. Draconis, there isn't a benefit to having two crew instead of three... Think about it with a three man crew you can fire at full speed with either 3 or 2 men and at half speed with 1 man. If you have a two man crew you fire a full with 2 or 1, but if everyone's dead you can't fire at all! The three man crew is always better, I learned this the hard way going from Dwarfs to High Elfs.
If you like the Death Rocket there isn't nay reason not to use it, I use stuff that sucks all the time because I like it. However if you're trying to archive maximum "power" you should probably invest in other things.
So about the list...
I was thinking about how I run my regular Dwarfs at 1500, and I'm thinking that three heroes might just be two many. Have you thought about maybe only taking a Sorcerer and a BSB? Or even just a Hero and a BSB? That would free up quite a few points, especially if you went Hero + BSB. Just food for thought...
woahh okay i wasn't expecting that phew! anyway it seems that some people are in favour of the death rockets whilst other are not hmm well i think two wizards work better than the bsb okay he really helps but i need some magical defense, otherwise i wont have any combat's for my bsb to be used for . . .
Hero - 94
Great Weapon
Armour of Gazrahk
Sorcerer - 150
Level 2
2 dispel scrolls
Sorcerer - 150
Level 2
Power stone
dispel scroll
24 CD Warriors - 294
FC
Great Axes + Shields
24 CD Warriors - 246
FC
17 Blunderbussiers - 204
22 Orc Big Un's - 250
Full Command
Shields
Earthshaker - 110
Not as much shooting, filled out a bit more and a bit more fuller MC=92 which is ok considering the cost of Cd's.
Better?
Seems cool man, but I'd lose the great axes on the one warrior unit and use the points for more dudes.
This is really a personal prefrance but, I've been known to freeball it with magic and not take any defense at all sometimes... Try it sometime, wizards are expensive so you may find the points you save is worth it... Maybe not, but it's something to consider.
Usually it's a matter of what you end up fighting. I go against ALOT, and I do mean ALOT of Magic Heavy armies, so I tend to always take 1 CD Lord and 3 level 2 wizards in my 2k points Standard list with lore of fire Usually.
My personal opinion. Your line looks good so far. Looks like you will actually hold. Ditch the Great axes and see where you can get more points squeezed into some things. Maybe some Light Armor for your Big uns if you want to go the armor save route in HTH.
Mainly, we rely on our Warriors to hold the lines. I know that I am almost never going to get the charge with my Chaos Dwarfs due to my speed, even with my earthshaker cannons slowing things down. In alot ways we are just too slow. That's why I soften them up with alot of artillery fire and force ALOT of panic checks throughout the shooting phase. The 3+ Save from my warriors in HTH alongside my Chaos Dwarf Lord attacking definitley helps.
But yes, overall the list is better. Ditch the great weapons and get light armor for your big uns if you can. That's about the only change I'd make.
Draconis
Usually it's a matter of what you end up fighting. I go against ALOT, and I do mean ALOT of Magic Heavy armies, so I tend to always take 1 CD Lord and 3 level 2 wizards in my 2k points Standard list with lore of fire Usually.
Not to drag this to off topic but... Not saying you're wrong or anything, but I've taken no magic defense with various armies against some pretty heavy duty magic lists (10PD Slannesh, VC, ETC) and come out on top. Magic to me is less of a threat then shooting, because of the randomness. That's why I'll usually take my chances with the magic and funnel the points into the army. I think sometimes people get to paranoid about the effects of magic and overspend on defense, like I said just food for thought.
Usually it's a matter of what you end up fighting. I go against ALOT, and I do mean ALOT of Magic Heavy armies, so I tend to always take 1 CD Lord and 3 level 2 wizards in my 2k points Standard list with lore of fire Usually.
Not to drag this to off topic but... Not saying you're wrong or anything, but I've taken no magic defense with various armies against some pretty heavy duty magic lists (10PD Slannesh, VC, ETC) and come out on top. Magic to me is less of a threat then shooting, because of the randomness. That's why I'll usually take my chances with the magic and funnel the points into the army. I think sometimes people get to paranoid about the effects of magic and overspend on defense, like I said just food for thought.
Aye, and that's perfectly viable and a good thought process. No arguments from me there. I just like having magic in there for both reasons of tactics (Taking out small flankers or warmachines with Conflag of Doom or Fireballs etc), and also for dispel reasons.
I have literally come against Skaven and other armies that have completley and utterly decimated me in the magic phase, even with mages. I'm talking armies with 15 Dice in the magic phase, or more, considering power stones etc Very magic heavy armies.
Honestly, everyone will eventually come to what I call a "Base List" That will work for them in almost every given situation. It comes down to play style and that individuals tactics that they implement. You go hero heavy I assume, which means you are a more combat oriented army in the base matters of things. So you pretty much rule in the combat phase.
ok made some changes:
Hero - 94
Great Weapon
Armour of Gazrahk
Sorcerer - 150
Level 2
2 dispel scrolls
Sorcerer - 150
Level 2
Power stone
dispel scroll
24 CD Warriors - 246
FC
Shields
24 CD Warriors - 246
FC
Shields
17 Blunderbussiers - 204
22 Orc Big Un's - 250
Full Command
Shields
Earthshaker - 110
orcs already come with light armour 48 pts left what to spend?
Maybe a few Hob Gobs for cannon fodder?
I advise you to take two bolthrowers, they are very good against large targets and cavalery units.
Also taking some hobgoblins will help you. You can field 10 for 20 points. They can be used as screens, take table quarters, extra unit to be fielded.
I agree, take 2 bolt throwers. Then drop 1 dispel scroll (you don't need 3 in a 1500pt unless you know your enemy is magic heavy), and buy maybe 20 unarmed hobgobos to be used as cannon fodder. Other than that, list looks great.
Erik