Uh...okay..."delighted" isn't quite the right word, but I needed something that started with 'd'. Sue me
Anyway, I got to thinking about this while reading a certain article in the wiki and noting a tone of dissatisfaction about how Chaos Dwarfs have been treated over the years. The article talked about
White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs in rather bleak terms, criticising it not just as an army book, but clearly implying it was a failure and its lacklustre nature somehow responsible for the niche status of Chaos Dwarfs.
I mean, let's face it, we've
never had an army book - the closest we got was a compliation of articles from White Dwarf and now we're stuck using an outdated booklet that was given away free seven (!) years ago for our rules.
You could forgive a Chaos Dwarf player for being a little depressed about how his army has been treated over the years...
But are you?
I mean, thinking about it, I'm really happy that I'm a Chaos Dwarf player. My army elicits more interest than any other, collecting my army is a challenge rather than a chore, there is so little background that there's room to pretty much see the army however you want.
I know this sounds like I'm trying to find the silver lining, but the reason I made this thread is not to say "hey guys, chin up!", it's because I really was confused to encounter the work of someone who was annoyed at the treatment of Chaos Dwarfs. The way I see it, they've
always been a niche army and deciding to collect them in the first place (and this was during 5th Edition) was seen as a bit weird even then.
So I like it. I like scrounding background from where we can, and getting excited over minor refrences in White Dwarf and other army books. I like not knowing how my army is 'supposed' to look, since there's no current version of the models. I like still having a blank canvas.
I wouldn't play any other army.
What are everyone else's thoughts?
Meh. Both.
I like the fact that we haven't been totally abandoned. But that's like saying, hey, at least I didn't have any money to burn down with my house when it caught fire.
The main reason I came back to the CDs is: that it's not a GW concept army - but a army of your own creation. But the fact that it's not a fully GW-army is also the reason why we have discussions like "
Fate of Chaos Dwarfs in the UK" and "
Issues with the current Chaos Dwarf List". All I need is an official updated 7ed army-list - that would make my army legal anywhere. I don't need a shiny army-book and concept models. But a balanced, playable armylist with no "count as" and "opponent agrees".
I'm not sure that we should celebrate being badly treated
Well, that's not exactly what I'm saying. My post isn't about making the best of a bad lot or anything, it's about me wondering whether there is a sense of betrayal regarding Chaos Dwarfs as a whole, or if it's the very fact that they've been forgotten that makes you so passionate about them.
I don't think I'd be on a message board posting pictures of my army or contributing to a wiki about Wood Elves or Empire or something if they were what I collected.
Maybe it comes down to what kind of player you are? A lot of people are talking about army list updates and legality, which makes me wonder if there really has been an issue with the opponent's refusing to play a Chaos Dwarf army - I find it hard to believe, but we've all met players who can be a bit...well...competetive, and would rather 'win' by refusing to play an 'illegal' list than actually beat someone in a game.
I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a GW fanboy (because most of their stuff is overpriced crap...) but it seems like bitching about them leaving Chaos Dwarfs in the dark is a bit like wishing they still supported Man O War, or wondering why there aren't Heroquest articles in White Dwarf anymore.
We're an obscure army - that's what being a Chaos Dwarf player is all about, isn't it? You do it so that when you set them up people are impressed that you bothered to do something different instead of just buy a box of High Elves or Brettonians.
Does that mean you will stop collecting CD's if GW releases an army book and range of figures?
Admittedly, it's the lack of availability of CD's that attracted me to them. Having said that, I am more of a painter than a gamer. I agree that you get a lot more satisfaction out of converting a unit of CD's than you do buying a box of pointy ears, but I have collected a few armies (well, hunting parties!) and I always try to make them completely different from the start point.
Should a new army book and figure range be released tommorrow, I would carry on as I was doing anyway, maybe incorporate the new models that I think look the best. My armies tend to be flawed in their selection, but I don't care as long as they look awesome on the battlefield, and in the end, people talk about the great armies they have seen, not the ones that won. Unless of course it was their army that won!!!
" and in the end, people talk about the great armies they have seen, not the ones that won."
more people should adhere to that way of thinking.
back on topic, i dont chaos dwarfs have been treated too badly, if they were a 40k race they would have been dumped ages ago, its a lot harder to wipe someone off the fantasy map.
of course a full release would do wonders for them, but its not really a sound financial investment for GW, the fat cats will compare how well they are expected to do this time to how badly they did last time and say no. simple as that.
Like others have said a legal PDF is enough for me, as i enjoy converting my army how i want it. on no other army's forum will you see so many different examples of the exact same core unit. the great thing is about converting your own army is no-one else has one like it!
Judging by the way GW leeches cash from it's customers, if it was financially viable to support CDs they would have done. Look at this new 40k apocalypse thing. Realising that the core rules restrict the use of massive armies, GW have released apocalypse to justify selling a boxed all plastic space marine army that is going to cost £275, and a baneblade tank that will cost £60. They're not daft and people will pay it.
CDs are niche because they never received the initial support, not just from GW, but from gamers as well. People I speak to (the ones who are old enough to remember) liked the army & background but would not collect them themselves. We can chastise GW as much as we want, however, if GW ploughed it's money into projects under a misguided sense of loyalty to a sinking ship, I daresay we would not be having this discussion more to the fact that GW were bankrupt than us having our way. The time and money spent on boosting the core game and armies funds the development of our hobby and ensures that we at least still have one!
I have the Aeronautica Imperialis book. It's actually pretty good, and the models are great. The only problem is, and it's a big one, not many others have. The couple of games I've played as well have shown that the game doesn't go into enough detail with weapon systems and such like. There's no rules for missile defence (like flares to confuse heat seekers etc) and the only difference between weapon systems is strength & rate of fire. There are no rules for formations either, which is a pity. I would like to have seen a variety of weapon systems with outlandish effects and defence systems. As it is, it's just a dakka dakka fest with most of the emphasis being on manouvering. Having said that, it is still an enjoyable game, but as usual, Imperium has about 50 different planes, there are 2 ork planes, 3 eldar, 3 Tau and 2 chaos. See this thing about supporting the most popular army!
Anyway, back on topic. I think you will find Necrons were a White Dwarf army, but they were popular and people baught lots of them, so GW released an army book and a miniatures range and continue to support them. People did not buy CDs, so they didn't release an army book or new miniatures. Maybe they came close, which is why they got at least some miniatures and the WD Presents book, but the fact remains, people didn't buy enough of them to warrant GW going any further with them. This is why our main mission should be to deliver CD's to those too young to remember, breathe fresh popularity into the race and get more people to join our cause. Believe me, from what I have seen during the 14 years I've been collecting GW stuff, if they can make money out of it, they will.
Does that mean you will stop collecting CD's if GW releases an army book and range of figures?
That I think would be foolish, but I certainly won't be replacing all my models. I was asked by a GW staffer whether I was considering updating my Chaos Warriors to 7th edition models to which my answer was a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! You can still carry on converting your unique army even if there is an official miniatures range
The only true WFB release from Forge World is their Giant and yet at every Games Day, their stall is the most packed. Do the maths and you'll unfortunately see where the money lies.
Yeah but how much is that because it's the only chance you get to go to a stall and buy their stuff and walk away with it that same day. But I agree, 40K is where the money is. If those apocalypse box sets go into the stores (there is one that contains 10 IG Leman Russ's! one with an entire SM battle company containing 109 SMs and 9 Rhinos!! There are also BIG box sets for Tau, Eldar) these are BIG, BIG Boxes, they are going to take up a lot of real estate. What do you reckon will suffer shelf space wise? My money is on WFB.
A lot of what you'all have said applies to me. At first they intriuged me and I got a few. Then I started to put a small respectable force together. All this started during the 5th ed. I started to notice that lack of GW support and promotion and I wondered why? A lot of people were wary of the CD because of the UNKNOWN !! The "different" army fact added to its attraction for me. After seeing the availblity disappearing of the pieces, I figured to complete my army the best I could through e-bay. Prices are now triple their original cost on most. The Chaos Dwarf has seemed to have gotten an almost occult type following and attracts attention wherever they show up now. I see them coming back as a recognized fully authorized army with the respect due. With us originals the hard core and disiples for them. That is why I am happy about the Chaos Dwarfs!!!
Imagine the general uproar from current and former players of Chaos Dwarfs if GW announce they wont make them. I dont think GW dare do that for fear that alot of people may boycut them. People are on edge as it is with the huge increase in prices recent years so GW have to appease crowds somehow.
They've done it before, got rest their tyranid consumed souls. And surely, hiking the prices, indulging in their creative whims and getting away with it shows that GW can do whatever it wants.
Fun GW fact: the sale of Space Marines alone pays for the production and marketing of everything else they make.
Not surprised by this. I believe the reasons for this are simple. They are flexible good troops, plus you can paint them anyway you want and it fits the fluff.
And because all the ten year olds love "T3H M4SS1V BLU SP4C3 DOODZ W1V T3H ZOMFG BOLT3RZ TH4T PWN 4LL T3H UVV4 NOOBZ LOLOLOL!!!!1!!OnE!!11!"... 
Well the best one I ever heard (didn't happen to me, but I saw it mentionned on another forum) was about some kid who told a Blood Angels player he had painted his models wrong, when the guy asked him to clarify, he replied "Don't you know Space Marines are supposed to be blue?", seriously, some kids...
we were all kids once though . . . . . although i cant ever remember being that dumb.
dumbest thing i seen was some teenager pronouncing mortar more-tar, as in tar on a road. do some people just live in random little bubbles?
In terms of dumb things, my local GW takes the biscuit. One 40k noob informed his opponent (who had played for 12 years) that if you don't move your troops in one turn you can "save" that move and use it later. So Tau are now sorted as regards table quarters then... In another incident a noob loudly accused me of cheating because my prism cannon could shoot 60" and used a blast template whereas bolters could shoot only 12" if he moved. Apparently I was cheating because my gun could kill more than one marine a turn. I don't mind people who are learning but I wish GW would make them learn the rules before they let them play in store clubs and participation games - it wrecks it for the rest of us as its no fun spending ages setting up flattening someone without trying in a few minuites and waiting 1hr for the next game
The only true WFB release from Forge World is their Giant and yet at every Games Day, their stall is the most packed. Do the maths and you'll unfortunately see where the money lies.
I think its probablly the fact that most people want to buy forgeworld stuff on the day and not pay postage and packing. Also don't forget that getting stuff you can get in store at Gamesday is pointless - you just have to lug it round all day. The pre-release stall is just as busy as forgeworld
It's pronounced Hash-ut. Well, that's how I say it anyway. Maybe it's regional. In Zharr Naggrund they say it one way but elsewhere, differently.
This thread is sooo far off topic!
I pronounce it Hash-Hut but then I tend to pronounce most things wrong.
Just a few new magic items would be nice, ideally ones that are a little tricksey. +2S (as handy as it is) can get a little stale. And even the DOW got some new ones a while back.
. Is it so much to ask for something exclusive to fantasy to be released, thus far the newest WHFB stuff has been the Greater Daemons and they still only released rules for them to be used in 40k, and they've got that bloody Aeronautica Imperialitus or whatever the hell its called wasting perfectly good resin (who seriously plays that? anyone?)... 
