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Quest for the Blunderbuss
Author MessageQuest for the Blunderbuss
Grimbold Blackhammer
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Quest for the BlunderbussGrimbold Blackhammer 03-31-2013

I'm on a mission to figure out if our signature weapon, the Blunderbuss, is worth the points.  Enemies are afraid of it.  The models look suitably awesome!  But they are expensive as heck.  I honestly can't play enough games myself to figure this out on my own so I thought I'd turn to the CDO community for help.  What I'm asking is...*drumroll*...if you get the chance, add in a unit of at least 20 Infernal Guard with Blunderbusses into your army.  What I want to know is how many points were you playing, how many times the unit shot, and what (if anything) they killed.  And lastly, post that stuff here so I can compile the information!  If you want to add in any other thoughts you have (ie they kept a huge exclusion zone around my army or my enemy had to completely change his battle plan to deal with them), please do!

I love Blunderbusses.  I can't honestly say I love the cost but they are what they are.  But I want them to work!  I generally shoot a whopping ONCE per game and never have they led me to a "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY JUST KILLED THAT!!!!" kind of a moment.  Which tells me I'm probably using them wrong...  And that's what I want to fix!


And to start things off, in my last game I positioned my block of 24 dead center.  But on turn 1 my opponent decided to make a long-distance charge (needing a 12) into another unit and actually made it.  With him instantly into my lines, I had almost no opportunities to use them (1 shooting attack, 22 shots, killed 3 of 10 Cold One Knights) - points wasted.

Thanks in advance everybody!




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This post was last modified: 03-31-2013 05:30 PM by Grimbold Blackhammer.

03-31-2013 05:28 PM
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Samanos
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussSamanos 03-31-2013

maybe this is not the place to ask this, but do we roll the d3 for the number of shots each time the blunderbusses shoot or just once? pretty sure its the first one but just in case.


03-31-2013 11:58 PM
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Glimpse the Void
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGlimpse the Void 04-01-2013

@Samanos you roll each time.

In summary, I'm not quite sure but my feeling is that I like them and that if you are lucky they can be devastating.

So the results I'm about to share from my last game are not typical.  I played vampire counts last week at 2,500 and my block of 20 Blunderbuss owned many faces.  They anchored the flank of my gunline and offered my opponet a big "NOPE" at his attempts to get through that side.  

He had a big unit Vargeist fail the charge over and over, which allowed me to stand and shoot them,  and then a block of crypt horrors about 4 times. They decimated that Vargeist which never made it to combat and was mopped up in shooting and weakened the other unit so that the Blunderbuss could easily take them on in hand to hand combat.  They crumbled after the 2nd round of combat I think.  

So my opponent rolled really poorly to fail so many charges, but my blunderbuss were devastating.  Everyone who walked by the table shook their heads and complained they were OP.  I also want to mention that a miscast caused me to loose one so that block owned at only 19 strong, meaning I didn't even get the re-roll.  I'll never field them less than 23 again though...

I haven't played enough games with this army to really know, but my sense is that this unit is very expensive and a lot depends on luck and good planning.  It depends on how good the D3 are to you, positioning, and a number of other factors that have come up for me personally.  I've had games where they only fired once as a charge reaction.

04-01-2013 12:30 AM
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sheogorath
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RE: Quest for the Blunderbusssheogorath 04-01-2013

I have a counter experience to Glimpse, I used a block of 20, and they didn't get to fire a single time throughout the entire game.  They did act as a deterrent on their flank, I suppose, and I won the game (against dark elves), but I've gotten a lot more use out of a block of 20 fireglaives.

04-01-2013 09:11 AM
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Glimpse the Void
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGlimpse the Void 04-01-2013

I have to say that I've had a number of games like that myself Sheogorath.  Sometimes they get very little or less done at their price.  Fireglaives seem to be more reliable, but the beauty in the blunderbluss comes in when "what if" should become manifest...

04-01-2013 02:46 PM
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sheogorath
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RE: Quest for the Blunderbusssheogorath 04-02-2013

Glimpse the Void Wrote:
I have to say that I've had a number of games like that myself Sheogorath.  Sometimes they get very little or less done at their price.  Fireglaives seem to be more reliable, but the beauty in the blunderbluss comes in when "what if" should become manifest...


yeah, definitely...the wondrous, mythical 60 shot stand and shoot against a unit, rerolling to wounds....and then your guys still have hand weapon/shield in combat.

bears thinking about. maybe use them as an elite block or something.  It certainly seems hard to use them offensively.

04-02-2013 08:59 AM
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Grimbold Blackhammer
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGrimbold Blackhammer 04-02-2013

Please don't clog this thread with the extraneous stuff =)  I don't want the purpose of this thread to get derailed!

I know...I'm a kill-joy Hashut!




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04-02-2013 09:58 AM
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moses
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RE: Quest for the Blunderbussmoses 04-02-2013

game 1, vs demons, old armybook, 2500

21 blunderbusses
shot about 15 plaguebearer
then quite a few bloodletter from distance, then some more due to stand and shoot. killed some more in the following combat.

game 2, vs demons, new armybook, 2500

21 blunderbusses
did not do much at the beginning, when demons closed in, shot some models from stuff that was in range (30 bloodletters)
then got charged by the rest of bloodletters, 20 models.
got 60 shots for stand and shoot. about 5 made it to hand to hand.
killed some dwarfs, i got some lucky dice and killed these last guys.

so in two games i got a really good result.

moses


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04-02-2013 02:54 PM
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Geist
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGeist 04-02-2013

If you need an in-depth look at the use of a blunderbuss, I will try to find my very long thread that explains the pros and cons of a blunderbuss vs a fireglaive.  While each have there uses my long post can be broken down to a few key notes.
PRO side.
Ability to reroll wounds on this large of a scale (even a mininum of 18 in a horde of 10 wide by 4 deep, is a large scale to allow the reroll mechanic)
Use of a shield in hand to hand, which allows use of superior armour save + parry.
The flux that goes hand in hand with a flaming banner and the blunderbuss plus our lore.
Lastly small lightly armored units will get mowed if they come anywhere near.
CON side.
Range is horrid.
Moving puts you one down to hit, so almost every game you will have one round of sub par shooting.  Just deal with it best you can.
St4 with no ST bonus from weapon means that some fights will be either long or just impossible to win.  Anyone who has t4 and at least a 3 save is going to make life rough.  Good news is for now those units are not many.
Cost, the biggest problem with these units is the cost is just insanely high.  Most armies can field two units same size or bigger for the one.  So  expect to always be out numbered and often out flanked. At least in regards to that unit.

04-02-2013 06:07 PM
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Samanos
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussSamanos 04-02-2013

Geist Wrote:

Ability to reroll wounds on this large of a scale (even a mininum of 18 in a horde of 10 wide by 4 deep, is a large scale to allow the reroll mechanic)


I may be wrong but that doesnt make sense. You need at least 20 models to reroll wounds. and a horde with 10 front and 4 ranks deep is 40 models not 18...


This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 10:08 PM by Samanos.

04-02-2013 10:06 PM
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Grimbold Blackhammer
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGrimbold Blackhammer 04-02-2013

Rerolls require 20 FIRING models.  Which means, if there is a character in the front rank, you need to be at least 11 models wide.




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04-02-2013 11:35 PM
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Zanthrax
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussZanthrax 04-03-2013

Grimbold Blackhammer Wrote:
Rerolls require 20 FIRING models.  Which means, if there is a character in the front rank, you need to be at least 11 models wide.


That's right so deploy 11 wide with a unit of at least 30.  I have not been disappointed with the blunderbuss and I am now going to equip mine with shields too.

My only suggestion is be wary of flanking heavy cav- we can take a flank charge from pansy light cav in the flank no probs.

Apologies if this has been answered but does banner of eternal flame make blunderbuss shots flaming too or only close combat hits?[/font]


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04-03-2013 12:42 AM
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Grimbold Blackhammer
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGrimbold Blackhammer 04-06-2013

I squeaked in a game yesterday against a newer player and ruined his day.  And his High Elves.  I think it was purely his inexperience at Warhammer but so far the best game I've had with Blunderbusses.  A unit of 7 Swordmasters, half a block of white lions, and a Silverhelm bus all mowed down in one game (2 stand&shoot reactions and an actual shooting phase).  Maybe they're just great against Elves?

Keep the reports coming!




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04-06-2013 10:19 AM
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nilbog
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RE: Quest for the Blunderbussnilbog 04-07-2013

I've played against a CD army with blunderbusses and even for us it's a scary proposition going against them (possibly because I knew what they were capable of). They made a mess of my unit of 30 IG.


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04-07-2013 01:26 PM
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussMLP 04-07-2013

In my last battle before selling my army I used a block of thirty with full command with my S-P against vampire counts at 1500 points.

They rocked. Used in two ranks of 15 I got a round of shooting against his ghoul horde(40 i think) taking out about 10-15. Then when he charged in I killed about another 10 on stand and shoot. His ghoul king was in the unit tooled up for loads of rerollable attacks and the unit took everything for 4 rounds of combat before wiping them out. Terrorgiest was also screaming in to the flank but they killed that on combat res too! I was down to about 8 IG and the S-P by the end though.


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04-07-2013 02:15 PM
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Geist
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGeist 04-08-2013

Yes flaming banner effects both ranged and hand to hand.  It works very well with the ash storm spell on multi wound units.  Though the only problem I have begun to run into is st4, in hand to hand, is not strong enough against alot of units.  It might be time to start looking into either fire glaives or great weapons.

04-08-2013 01:15 AM
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Glimpse the Void
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGlimpse the Void 04-16-2013

Unit of 22 Blunderbuss fired 3 times.

1.  rolled 2 (x22 = 44 shots)
2. rolled 2 (x22 = 44 shots)
3. rolled 1 (x22 = 22 shots) , this was a stand and shoot reaction.

Those white lions had a very bad day Wink

04-16-2013 10:45 PM
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Grimbold Blackhammer
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGrimbold Blackhammer 04-16-2013

Glimpse the Void Wrote:
Unit of 22 Blunderbuss fired 3 times.

1.  rolled 2 (x22 = 44 shots)
2. rolled 2 (x22 = 44 shots)
3. rolled 1 (x22 = 22 shots) , this was a stand and shoot reaction.

Those white lions had a very bad day Wink

Nice!  Any guesstimate what they managed to kill?




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04-16-2013 11:12 PM
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Glimpse the Void
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGlimpse the Void 04-17-2013

It was a fat horde of about 40 white lions with a BSB and mage.  They got hammered with two dread quake mortars, two rounds of blunderbuss shooting, then one more as a stand and shoot reaction the charge.  I also got soul blight off so it was kind of a bad situation for them before they made it to combat.  I killed the unit to a man and ran the characters down, placing their heads on spikes where they belong.

04-17-2013 07:16 AM
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Glimpse the Void
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RE: Quest for the BlunderbussGlimpse the Void 04-17-2013

I just realized you probally meant in shooting from the blunderbuss, let me check with my clubmate and see if he can get a better estimate...

04-17-2013 07:19 AM
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