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Olannon`s 2400 point Army Blog
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Olannon
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Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

Hi, and welcome to my army blog! This thread will detail the development of my Chaos Dwarf list, hopefully filled with tactical thoughts, battle reports, list building and army shots as I go along. I have been playing Warhammer for 13 years and face almost exclusively skilled opponents in a competitive environment. This is what I enjoy and also where I want to improve as a player. Thus far I have mainly played High Elves (check out this thread for my High Elf Army Blog: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=45081) but I very recently picked up Chaos Dwarfs and was recommended to check out this forum.

I would of course appreciate your input, no matter how insignificant you might feel that it is Happy

.::. Table of Contents .::.

  • Army List with Rationale and Development - click
  • Battle Reports - click
  • Army Pictures - click


2400 points Army Development Thread<- complete with tactical musings, battle reports and more!
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This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 03:46 PM by Olannon.

03-18-2014 03:36 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

// Army List with Rationale and Development //

Rationale:
On the K`daii Destroyer - clicky
On Enemy Gunlines - clicky
The Inclusion of Fireglaives - clicky

Hashut Sorcerer-Prophet: Level 4, Chalice of Blood and Darkness, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Blood of Hashut = 420
Dark Castellan: BSB, Dragonhelm, Black Hammer of Hashut, Shield, Talisman of Endurance = 207
Metal Daemonsmith Sorcerer: Spellshield, Luckstone, Scroll of Shielding = 135
Hobgoblin Khan: Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Dragonbane Gem = 59
Hobgoblin Khan: Giant Wolf, Light Armour = 54
Characters = 875

Core:
26 Infernal Guard, Full Command, Great Weapons: 422
10 Infernal Guard, Fireglaives, Musician: 180
Core total: 602

Special:
Iron Daemon, Hellbound = 310
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher = 100
Magma Cannon = 145
3 Bull Centaurs, Great Weapons, Musician = 155
Special total: 710

Rare:
Hellcannon = 210
Rare total: 210

Army total: 2397


2400 points Army Development Thread<- complete with tactical musings, battle reports and more!
High Elf Army Development Thread

This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 03:12 PM by Olannon.

03-18-2014 03:37 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

// Battle Reports //
#4 - 2400 vs Dwarfs (ETC comp) - click
#3 - 2400 vs Ogre Kingdoms (ETC comp) - click
#2 - 2400 vs Dwarfs (ETC comp) - click
#1 - 2400 vs Dark Elves (ETC comp) - click


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This post was last modified: 06-01-2014 04:08 PM by Olannon.

03-18-2014 03:38 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

// Army Pictures //

Will be included as soon as I have some! In the meantime, check out my thread in the Conversions Forum here: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...?tid=14153


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This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 03:45 PM by Olannon.

03-18-2014 03:39 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

My very first game with Chaos Dwarfs was against Dark Elves. Yesterday I played against a good friend of mine who brought a Witch Elves Deathstar to the party. No easy matchup for Chaos Dwarfs as poison galore hurts so many of our otherwise durable troops and the Dark Elf chaff provide board control which makes it hard for us to do just about anything. The game was played using ETC rules.

The lists were as follows:

Metal Sorcerer-Prophet: Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Earthing Rod = 375
Metal Daemonsmith Sorcerer: Chalice of Blood and Darkness = 145
Infernal Castellan, BSB, Mask of the Furnace, Shield, Luckstone = 202
Khan, Wolf, Dragonhelm, Light Armour, Shield = 66
Khan, Wolf, Dragonbane Gem, Light Armour, Shield = 61
Characters: 849
27 Infernal Guard, Full Command, Great Weapons = 437
11 Infernal Guard, Fireglaives, Musician = 197
29 Hobgoblins, Bows, Musician = 149
Core: 783
Iron Daemon, Hellbound = 310
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher = 100
Magma Cannon = 145
Hellcannon = 210
Machines: 765
Army total: 2397


Dreadlord - Enchanted Shield, Giant Blade, Crown of Command, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak - 254pts
Supreme Sorceress - Level 4 Life, Dark Pegasus, Dispel Scroll, Cloak of Twilight - 345pts
Master - BSB, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Ring of Hotek - 157pts
Death Hag - Cauldron of Blood, Witchbrew, Sword of Anti Heroes - 335pts
34x Witch Elves - Full Command, Razor Standard - 449pts
5xDark Riders - 80pts
5xDark Riders - 80pts
4xReaper Bolt Thrower - 280pts
5xShades - 80pts
5xShades - Great Weapons - 90pts
5xWarlocks - 125pts
5xWarlocks - 125pts

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

I knew I would have to engage the Witch Elf star to get significant points here. Metal is terrible against this army and the evasive nature of the list means it`s hard for WMs to score points. Thus, I wanted to blast away at the Witchelves with artillery while targeting the Cauldron with the Hellcannon. If I got lucky, I would follow up with Deathshrieker Demolition Rockets.

Deployment saw me place the Hellcannon in a corner. Since it`s a monster and therefore cannot pivot and shoot, it`s kind of hard to place it anywhere else and still have decent LoS. I placed the Deathshrieker + Magma next to it, with the big IG unit with all characters in front. The Fireglaives + Iron Daemon went in front of the Hellcannon to secure the flank (which my opponent deployed fairly weak), hoping to be able to dominate it and later on wheel around towards the center, hopefully in time to help out against the Witch Elves.



My General rolls up 2+ to wound, but 1 wounds myself for his weapon. Magic: I rolled Glittering Robe for the L1 and kept it. L4 rolled up Seering Doom, Blades, Transmutation of Lead and Final Transmutation. He got Awakening, Throne, Shield, Dwellers. Going for first turn, his +1 ensured him the initiative (this DE army has a very low drop count for a non-wm army).

// DE T1 //

Witchelves and East move up, West are awaiting my moves before doing anything. Magic is easily contained at this range with Chalice. Shooting sees his Shades target the closest Khan (my mistake for not putting him in a unit), but he only manages 1W. Some Hobgoblins and a couple of Fireglaives die to RBTs.



// CD T1 //

Khans move up to the center where they receive cover from enemy shooting. Bunker reforms slightly to close the gap to the Magma Cannon and provide hard cover for my artillery. The Hobgoblins roll a `6` for their animosity which is perfect. Magic sees me roll snake eyes and I cannot do anything. I was hoping for Blades of Aiban on the Hobgoblins, which would`ve essentially made them BS5 (!). Shooting however is brutal as the Magma Cannon and Hellcannon both land perfect hits on the Witchelves, killing a dozen models and leaving the Cauldron on 1W! 2 Warlocks are downed by the Iron Daemon as well, who has the Fireglaives close by in case the Warlocks decide to attempt a charge (flanking by 9 Fireglaives should see me win combat easily).



// DE T2//

Warlocks decide to charge the closest Khan, who flees off the board. He redirects into the second, which holds. I figured this would leave him in a pretty bad spot so if he made the charge (17", so roughly 60% to make it) it wouldn`t matter too much. Magic sees him get off Throne of Vines, Chalice contains the rest. Western Dark Riders move up outside of ID charge and the Eastern chaff shoots my Hobgoblins, downing quite a few. RBTs take out another couple of Fireglaives. In combat the Warlocks fail (!) to kill the Khan and to make matters worse he passes his break test. This doesn`t leave me with a whole lot of options as he`s essentially blocking me.



// CD T2 //

My turn 2 has only just begun and already I have so many things to consider. First off the Fireglaives charge the Dark Riders, who flee, to provide my ID with some movement. I then move the ID to have a chance at getting a dominant position in the center. The Hobgoblins reform to 6-wide as they`re only 18 remaining and move to block off the Witchelves (also forcing an overrun in the case of a charge as they`re frenzied

Magic this time is huge, with 12v6 being rolled after I box cars my channels. The end result however is Robes on the Khan (hoping to keep him alive for one more combat round) and Blades of Aiban on the Hobgoblins. A fairly poor result as I didn`t even draw his scroll, but it is mainly because Metal is a very poor fit against this army.

Shooting sees me down the Witchelves to less than a single rank and kill off the Hag.



// DE T3 //

Warlocks charge Iron Daemon, Shades charge bunker in the flank in hopes of keeping it fairly still. Witchelves charge Hobgoblins (I made a mistake here as I forgot to stand and shoot with the Throwing Knives which would`ve probably killed off most, if not all, of the remaining Witchelves) who hold. We now decide to end the game after T4 because it`s getting too late. This of course influences the rest of the game heavily.

Magic: I forgot I had to dispel Throne of Vines in my last turn. He rolls huge for Dwellers on the Magma cannon and I let it go, the WM insta-dies. I then use Chalice to remove his remaining PD and dispel throne. His 2 successful casts in the last 2 turns has taken the Cauldron back to 3W.

Shooting kills another couple of Fireglaives. They are now dangerously low. Witchelves kill off Hobgoblins and overrun so that they are within range of Shades. I Make Way! with the General + BSB to fight the GW Shades, who fail to impress me. I kill 3 in return but they hold due to BSB. Mission accomplished. Warlocks wound the Iron Daemon 3 times.



// CD T3 //

Fireglaives charge Warlocks. Despite only getting one corner-to-corner I`m hoping a combat reform will allow me to save the Iron Daemon from a slow poison-death. Hellcannon tries to charge Warlocks in front of my bunker but I roll abysmally low and it wheels 2" in a failed charge instead. Magic: I didn`t get anything crucial off but I do believe his Scroll came out. The Demolition rocket hits the Cauldron but its ward save keeps it alive.

Combat: Fireglaive does nothing, he wounds the ID once. I win, but he passes the break test, unfortunately. General + BSB finish off Shades with no damage taken in return and I combat reform 10-wide, characters spread out.



// DE T4 //

Shades + Warlocks charge the bunker. Witchelves reform and move to center. Dark Riders flank Fireglaives and Iron Daemon. Sorceress charges Deathshrieker. Magic is contained completely and shooters do nothing. Combat: Shades + Warlocks take some wounds off of me, but no characters die and in return he loses a lot of models. Both units break from combat and I`m free! The Fireglaives + Iron Daemon fare very badly and in total I lose by 7. Somehow the Fireglaives find the courage to hold as I make the 2nd attempt with a `2` and a `1`.



// CD T4 //

I charge the bunker into the remaining Witch Elves. The Hellcannon charges his Dark Riders engaged with the Fireglaives. Magic sees him dispel Robe, however I get Blades of Aiban through! Shooting is non-existant as everything is tied up. In the combat against his Witchelves he kills 10 models before I get to strike. In return however I kill the remaining Witchelves AND the 3W Cauldron of Blood, many thanks to Blades of Aiban! The Hellcannon kills off the Dark Riders and the Fireglaives survive, however the Warlocks finish off the Iron Daemon with their poisoned madness. The Sorceress and Deathshrieker crew still fail to impress one another. He passes his General + BSB break test and the Warlock break test and that`s the game!

Counting up victory points, it`s roughly 1000 vs 800, a 11-9 victory to the Chaos Dwarfs!

// Evaluation //

This game taught me a lot about Chaos Dwarfs, most notably the army composition I`m playing around with here. First of all, having to place the Hellcannon in a corner is pretty terrible: with its M3 it`s very hard to bring its strength to bear in combat when positioned in this way. Secondly, it would have been a really strong anchor element on my refused side. I`ll have to see if there`s anyway to play around this, perhaps there are some matchups where I can deploy differently.

The placement of the bunker is crucial, as is the character positions. In this game, I always had the re-rolls I needed where I needed them (both wizards covering 2 war machines) which helped out greatly for their ability to tear apart his Witchelves so fast. I have to practice this a lot and I think I`ll simply do some "dry deployments" with dummy movement trays to check out various positions.

The Hobgoblins worked extremely well. I was lucky to get a `6` for two crucial turns in a row and Blades of Aiban most certainly makes them a LOT better. However I believe they can function very well regardless with just the bows as a meat shield that also helps me deal with fast cav etc. Their sheer size, coupled with LD10 re-rollable, makes them a highly useful unit.

The Iron Daemon is super scary and in-directly provides a lot of board control. It is extremely weak against cavalry and especially poison fast cav (probably ranged poison, too) such as Warlocks. To this end I found that a medium sized unit of Fireglaives was able to protect it rather well. I like this combo as a flank-anchor element and of course, in a lot of matchups it won`t have such hard counters (nor will the opponent`s shooting be so well suited to thin out the Fireglaives as the RBTs were here.

Metal didn`t really work here, nor will it against WE shooty-avoidance, many HE lists and Lizardman MSU either. It gives a lot of value against Empire, which I consider this list`s worst matchup (if you lose the shooting duel early on it`s game over as M3 cannot push) but I`m not sure it`s that much stronger than Hashut, which is what I`ll be trying next (and metal on the L1).

Lastly, don`t take away too much from the result of this game: the end play was a lot more risky since both sides had good chances of getting lots of points quickly. If the game had gone on for a full 6 turns it could`ve been completely different, especially with the L4 Life flying around. Regardless it was a very tactical, challenging and interesting game to play and I hope you`ve enjoyed the read Happy


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High Elf Army Development Thread

This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 03:47 PM by Olannon.

03-18-2014 03:42 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

In light of this game and a thorough read-through of the FAQ/Army list, I have a couple of changes I wish to make:
- Khan`s need to lose their Shields to get fast cav
- I am contemplating a more hitty layout for the BSB: Black Hammer + Dragonhelm + Talisman of Endurance looks very tempting, especially if I go with Hashut for the L4
- Level 4 equipment is ok I think. I would prefer having the second mage a little better protected. Will consider the Chalice + Talisman of Preservation + Enchanted Shield on the L4, which allows the secondary mage to grab some decent protection. I`m not sure I`m comfortable without Earthing Rod though.
- Blood of Hashut is probably well worth it. 1+ heavy lists scare me.

New list draft will be up later tonight Happy


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03-18-2014 03:53 PM
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Billy Ocean
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogBilly Ocean 03-18-2014

That was a nice batrep, and I like the idea of incorporating the reps into your list thread, to document both the evolution of the list and its performances. Very cool.

Were you throwing Final Trans at the witch-star? I would have thought that would draw out his scroll very early, and if he let it through it would have put the hurt on that unit early, allowing you to focus WMs elsewhere. I have found that magma cannons work very well against light fast cav. You can often wipe whole units of dark riders, reavers etc if you get a good angle (although working the angles is hard when you're castled up in a corner). Warlocks are a different story tho thanks to their ward save - hate those guys. I don't know if you're gonna find a better lore than metal for this list. Glittering robe is great when you have multiple units of IG, and if you gave your hobbos shields it would even turn them into a pretty solid rock! There is the obvious death + hellcannon synergy that you could try of course.

Overall, well played against a tough DE list and well written-up. Keep it coming.


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03-18-2014 06:06 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-18-2014

Hey Billy Ocean - thanks for your feedback! I have lots of good experiences from Ulthuan with compiling everything relating to list development in one thread.

I was throwing Final Transmutation on them early on. T1 I had 2 Power Dice, T2 I got an abysmally bad roll and T3 they were kinda decimated and I needed my power elsewhere. As for Metal being good, I`m not sold just yet. Too situational and selection dependent in my opinion. Anyways I`ll try Hashut and see how I like it Happy I can`t do Death as long as I have the Chalice under ETC restrictions.

So: onto list drafts. Here`s what I want to try next:

Hashut Sorcerer-Prophet: Level 4, Chalice of Blood and Darkness, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Blood of Hashut = 420
Dark Castellan: BSB, Dragonhelm, Black Hammer of Hashut, Shield, Talisman of Endurance = 207
Metal Daemonsmith Sorcerer: Spellshield, Luckstone, Scroll of Shielding = 135
Hobgoblin Khan: Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Dragonbane Gem = 59
Hobgoblin Khan: Giant Wolf, Light Armour = 54
Characters = 875

27 Infernal Guard, Full Command, Great Weapons = 437
11 Infernal Guard, Fireglaives, Musician = 197
24 Hobgoblins, Bows, Musician = 124
Core: 758

Iron Daemon, Hellbound = 310
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher = 100
Magma Cannon = 145
Hellcannon = 210
Machines: 765

Army total: 2398


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03-18-2014 06:21 PM
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogMadHatter 03-18-2014

Real great with the battlereports, looks awesome. Will look back from time to time Cheers!


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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogGrimbold Blackhammer 03-18-2014

What a fun battle report!

Are you Curu Olannon?  If so, I've been a fan of yours for a while.  Welcome to CDO!!


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03-18-2014 06:44 PM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-19-2014

@MadHatter - thanks, glad you enjoyed Happy I`m hoping to keep this thread active with more than just BRs - they are of course an important part of army development but I believe that it`s equally important to use them as grounds for further, theoretical analysis.

@Grimbold Blackhammer - thank you Happy That is correct, you can see my HE blog linked in the first post here. Hopefully I`ll be able to balance CD and HE in the future to keep both army blogs active and interesting!


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03-19-2014 03:56 AM
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Olannon
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-19-2014

// On the K`daii Destroyer //

As the astute reader has surely noticed, there is no K`daii destroyer in my list. This is a topic that I would like to discuss. First of all, let me make it very clear: the K`daii destroyer is an extremely powerful model: with a damage output that is greater than a Star Dragon and a special rule which decimates light infantry, its offensive capabilities are beyond question. Defensively, it is also very hard to harm, as it has high T and W and a 4++ it is way tougher than most monsters. Add to that, mundane attacks need to re-roll to wound. What is the problem, then? The problem is actually four-fold:
1. Frenzy
2. Flaming and Unstable
3. Points cost
4. Utility in hard matchups

Let me address these points in more detail:

1. Frenzy
Frenzy is, as ever, a double-edged sword. I am of the profound opinion that a skilled opponent can almost always make this work more against you than it does for you. I have done this countless of times against Khorne Warriors, Witchelves and even K`daii Destroyers. What`s more, even if your opponent does not capitalize on this, you cannot necessarily use it the way you want to. Let`s say for example that you want your K`daii protecting an Iron Daemon. Fast Cav charges the Daemon regardless and your K`daii is forced to intervene. This will send it far off after combat is won and thus it is inherently a flawed tactic.

2. Flaming and Unstable
A very poor combination that a LOT of units can exploit. A firewarded BSB in the flank for example (not hard to setup given its frenzy) will tear it apart in a couple of rounds of combat. With the ever-increasing amount of 2++ firewarded units and characters, this is becoming a greater and greater liability.

3. Points Cost
The fact is that the K`daii is expensive. I`m not saying it`s too expensive, but regardless of how you look at it, taking one will reduce your shooting/infantry/magic by a significant amount. In an expensive and elite army like CD, I find a hard time justifying this.

4. Utility in hard matchups
I think some of the hardest matchups include Lizardmen, Dark Elves (poison MSU board control armies) and Empire (cannons and Coven of Light). In none of these matchups does the K`daii provide a lot of value. In fact, its flaws are even more apparant here: Lizardmen and Dark Elves will run circles around it and Empire can tie it up if need be, shoot it down with Cannons or just redirect it. Banishment is also super-strong against it.

Overall I do believe that the K`daii is a very good choice for pounding hard on less experienced players, but I have yet to see it being used effectively against strong players. I don`t want to build my army around capitalizing on weaker players and/or players who are unfamiliar with CD, thus it is a choice that I, at least as of now, will rather leave at home.


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This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 06:10 PM by Olannon.

03-19-2014 07:27 AM
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MadHatter
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RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogMadHatter 03-19-2014

Olannon Wrote:
// On the K`daii Destroyer //

As the astute reader has surely noticed, there is no K`daii destroyer in my list. This is a topic that I would like to discuss. First of all, let me make it very clear: the K`daii destroyer is an extremely powerful model: with a damage output that is greater than a Star Dragon and a special rule which decimates light infantry, its offensive capabilities are beyond question. Defensively, it is also very hard to harm, as it has high T and W and a 4++ it is way tougher than most monsters. Add to that, mundane attacks need to re-roll to wound. What is the problem, then? The problem is actually four-fold:
1. Frenzy
2. Flaming and Unstable
3. Points cost
4. Utility in hard matchups

Let me address these points in more detail:

1. Frenzy
Frenzy is, as ever, a double-edged sword. I am of the profound opinion that a skilled opponent can almost always make this work more against you than it does for you. I have done this countless of times against Khorne Warriors, Witchelves and even K`daii Destroyers. What`s more, even if your opponent does not capitalize on this, you cannot necessarily use it the way you want to. Let`s say for example that you want your K`daii protecting an Iron Daemon. Fast Cav charges the Daemon regardless and your K`daii is forced to intervene. This will send it far off after combat is won and thus it is inherently a flawed tactic.

2. Flaming and Unstable
A very poor combination that a LOT of units can exploit. A firewarded BSB in the flank for example (not hard to setup given its frenzy) will tear it apart in a couple of rounds of combat. With the ever-increasing amount of 2++ firewarded units and characters, this is becoming a greater and greater liability.

3. Points Cost
The fact is that the K`daii is expensive. I`m not saying it`s too expensive, but regardless of how you look at it, taking one will reduce your shooting/infantry/magic by a significant amount. In an expensive and elite army like CD, I find a hard time justifying this.

4. Utility in hard matchups
I think some of the hardest matchups include Lizardmen, Dark Elves (poison MSU board control armies) and Empire (cannons and Coven of Light). In none of these matchups does the K`daii provide a lot of value. In fact, its flaws are even more apparant here: Lizardmen and Dark Elves will run circles around it and Empire can tie it up if need be, shoot it down with Cannons or just redirect it. Banishment is also super-strong against it.

Overall I do believe that the K`daii is a very good choice for pounding hard on less experienced players, but I have yet to see it being used effectively against strong players. I don`t want to build my army around capitalizing on weaker players and/or players who are unfamiliar with CD, thus it is a choice that I, at least as of now, will rather leave at home.


I've not even started playing CD myself yet so this is no input from an experienced general.

While I personally love the fun in playing with unpredictable units (giants, chaos spawns, animosity, etc.) I'd much rather spend those K'daai-points on a siege-giant for holding that flank and expand a bit on the heroes or core aswell. I believe in most conflicts be they real on on the table-top it's all about putting pressure on your opponent which in turn forces them into exploitable situations and I believe a siege-giant will be absolutely perfect for this job! We'll see Happy


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Post: #14
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogGrimbold Blackhammer 03-19-2014

You've just posted an almost identical list of what I use in my more competitive games!  Like you I'm still trying to become familiar with the nuances of it but so far it's been solid (winning or drawing every game).

The K'daii Destroyer is likely the most controversial unit in the book.  It's killing power is only matched by how unreliable it is.  I think most folks with a bit of Chaos Dwarf experience have abandoned it for the reasons you brought up.  It is far to easy to lose it to a much lower-costed unit be that a character with a ward save versus fire, a cannon, or just a unit wearing dragon armor.  I've yet to fight an experienced player who did not have a solution for it.  The K'Daii is a blunt club and I prefer to win with scalpels.


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03-19-2014 10:41 AM
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Yodrin
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Post: #15
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogYodrin 03-19-2014

Another Norwegian guy, nice!!!!

Nettopp starta med CD?


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This thread is two years old. The kid in question is probably in prison by now.

03-19-2014 11:39 AM
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Billy Ocean
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Post: #16
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogBilly Ocean 03-19-2014

A nice analysis of our big guy, and reflects some of the frustrations I have felt with him. However, I haven't given up on him yet. Yes, he will be a target for heroes with the 2+ and dragon princes, but some of those threats can be kept at bay by counter-redirecting with Khans. It will usually be pretty obvious who your opponent is trying to hunt the destroyer with, and with M9 its not too hard to stay out of charge arc. You may end up in a game of chase-me with a hero, where he continually prevents you from declaring charges, but in so doing you can gain some board control by blocking the move of important units who'll be scared to charge it.

Also the destroyer and bull centaurs/taur'ruks provide our only fast threats, and without them do you not find that your army is mainly suitable for castling? How does it fare then against an army that has a shooting advantage over you? Empire and dwarfs can easily outshoot us, not least because their great cannons can reliably knock our artillery off the board, whereas we have nothing to reliably deal with theirs, leaving our chaos dwarfs with a long, slow slog across the field. Thats why I ended up giving up on the heavy artillery build in favor of a hybrid combat build with magma support.

Still, against anything but a stronger gunline I'm sure your build is extremely powerful, so a lot comes down to your local meta.


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03-19-2014 12:28 PM
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Olannon
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Post: #17
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-19-2014

@MadHatter - Interesting idea, but I do believe that the Siege Giant is way overcosted for what he provides. I actually don`t think I would`ve included him if you reduced his cost by 100 points even. For his points cost I can get a Magma Cannon AND a Deathshrieker - with points left over!

@Grimbold Blackhammer - cool, do you have a link to it? Happy

@Yodrin - yup! I started like a few days ago. Where do you live/play?

@Billy Ocean - I haven`t given up on him, he just hasn`t convinced me just yet Wink There`s also the issue with his 100x150mm base... Bull Centaurs are an interesting choice which I`ve been contemplating today actually. 3 of them with Shields and Spears hit quite hard (more than enough to chase off most cavalry) and their 2+ T5 ensures they won`t be taking too many casualties. It is surely a unit capable of supporting the Iron Daemon and it has some other uses too: M7 swiftstride isn`t too common in this army. I might give them a go instead of the Gobbos Happy

As for other gunlines, I will probably post an analysis of this as well. The long story short is that there`s only one army I really fear: Empire. Dwarfs rarely take more than 1 cannon, max 2, and with their new book they will very likely have more drops than you. Ogres usually only have 1, same with Daemons. Now, the Hellcannon is extremely strong in these matchups, especially given its re-roll scatter dice from a Daemonsmith, and the Deathshrieker is quite capable, too. Furthermore, against Dwarfs you can pretty much just march the Iron Daemon up and if the cannons don´t focus on it, they`re gonna be in trouble. Ogres I don`t actually think are that terrible for this army: consider Ashstorm + Flames/Magma Cannon on their bunker (hint: a perfectly landed Flames of Azgorh on an Ashstormed Gutstar AVERAGES over 50 (!!) wounds). Thus, if you lose the shooting war (which I consider unlikely) not all is lost Wink That leaves Daemons and Empire, the first usually play with lots of Nurgle who won`t like neither Hashut nor Magma Cannon. Empire can be a pain though. With 2 Cannons and a STank, it is a hard matchup indeed. The best thing you can do here is try and win the ranged war by all means possible: the Iron Daemon is fairly good against a STank moving close, the Infernal Guard are all capable of dealing damage to their 1+ stuff and the Blood of Hashut is excellent here.


2400 points Army Development Thread<- complete with tactical musings, battle reports and more!
High Elf Army Development Thread
03-19-2014 04:19 PM
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Yodrin
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Post: #18
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogYodrin 03-19-2014

In the Lillestrøm area, and u?


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Thommy H Wrote:
This thread is two years old. The kid in question is probably in prison by now.

03-19-2014 04:21 PM
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Olannon
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Post: #19
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogOlannon 03-19-2014

Oslo Happy We should have a game! Have you been to 2D6 before?

This afternoon I`ve been busy converting up the characters - my first look at the Dwarf kits. I have used a number of bits from both the Longbeards/Hammerers kit, Ironbreakers/Irondrakes kit, Ogre Ironblaster, Chaos Chariot and Chaos Space Marines Rhino Happy I`m quite happy with how they turned out and think that the paint job will really bring out the look and feel I`m going for with this army. For the rank and file infantry I intend to use Dark Elf Executioner heads. I think they`ll look awesome on the Dwarf bodies to represent CD and their relatively faceless expression will make these characters stand out so much more.

Ok, so before the pictures - some explanations: The guy on the left is the Daemonsmith. I gave him a dynamic stance and a rather unique weapon to act as his Ensorcelled Weapon. The guy on the middle is the Sorcerer Prophet. I originally experimented with a Chaos Warrior head, but it`s simply too big for the rest of the model. I modelled fire on both of his arms as I see fitting for such a Lord of Hashut. Lastly, the BSB on the right is fairly plain: most of his bits are from the Dwarf sprues with the exception of the banner and the spike on his neck.

Hellcannon in the background for scale purposes
















2400 points Army Development Thread<- complete with tactical musings, battle reports and more!
High Elf Army Development Thread

This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 04:58 PM by Olannon.

03-19-2014 04:57 PM
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Yodrin
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Post: #20
RE: Olannon`s 2400 point Army BlogYodrin 03-19-2014

Not played there in the week, but I have been to some 2D6 tourneys. I was suppose to attend at Crusade, but since they moved it to 5.April, I can't comeSadSad

Btw, your 3 char looks great!!!!!


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Thommy H Wrote:
This thread is two years old. The kid in question is probably in prison by now.

03-19-2014 05:19 PM
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