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1 Votes - 5 Average   On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [01-04-2016]
Author MessageOn Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [01-04-2016]
Jackswift
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Post: #21
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Jackswift 11-09-2015

Partial top down sketch.  The top view is slightly longer and the photo is at an angle which makes it slightly more out of proportion and skew, but you get the general idea. I am torn between doing the prow as below which makes the ram more of an effective warfare tool, or doing it as more of a triangular wedge and making the ship as a whole about half again wider.  The latter might be a bit more chaos dwarfish (dwarfistic? dwarfy? dwarfitudinal?... ).  If separate pieces, the smokestacks would be 2 to a side and probably larger and thicker, or could be revised as centermounted:



I envision the massive deck cannon mounted on a giant round gear so that it can turn as well as leverage up and down.  Finally, I am undecided as to whether the beard plates are flat to the hull, or jut out a bit.  Thoughts?

This post was last modified: 09-11-2017 04:41 AM by Admiral.

11-09-2015 05:53 PM
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Dînadan
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Dînadan 11-09-2015

Looks good.  I'd suggest maybe adding two rams on the front to be 'tusks' for the face, although they might have to be seperate pieces for casting purposes (although if so, the slots they fit in could be used as mounting points for cannons for a variant class).

As for smokestacks, I'd say go for two aside, although possibly make them thicker.


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11-09-2015 06:10 PM
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Admiral
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Post: #23
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Admiral 11-09-2015

Tasty! It looks good to me, and the width of the partial top down sketch seems reasonable. It don't need to be much broader to get that dwarf look in my eyes. The ram is it is on the sketch seems just fine. Smoke stacks will be good whether centre mounted or not, but thicker will be for the better without a doubt. And since the smaller ships' smokestacks are centre-mounted, going for 2 a side on the battleship will add to its grandeur.

I see clearer now why you envisioned a top-down casting approach given the upper deck. The placement of the large gun (separate piece from hull) calls for it. This is not a meagre escort, but a big vessel calling for some depth of railings and deck details. I'm all for mounting the gun/rocket battery on a large gear platform. Would it be possible to make the towering rear structure (including smoke stacks) a separate piece in the mould? That'd make the upper deck flatter and possibly slightly more economic to cast top-down. Making part of the face separate to bypass the nose undercut would also help. Everything else should be castable top-down as is on the sketches.

Beard plates will look best in miniature format if sticking out a bit. I think the armour tusks as they are, are more than sufficient. Minor note: I won't be able to do the rivets justice in this small scale, that's why there are no visible rivets on the escorts even though we know their plates logically are swarming with them. Still, there certainly are other details to add to the hull.

I really like your vision for this ship, and I've already got some plans for small extra decorations like small triangular plates, miniscule lightning bolt motifs and so on at strategic places. Those will likely be covered in future sketches drawn before sculpting the ornaments, to get input and, if all is well, thumbs up from you.

Also, make it as long as you think is befitting this metal monstrosity. A length of 7cm isn't too outlandish.


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This post was last modified: 11-09-2015 06:20 PM by Admiral.

11-09-2015 06:13 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #24
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Grimstonefire 11-09-2015

So here is my early WIP ship.

It's on a monster cavalry base.  Obviously a lot of work to do here, pretty much all over actually so no need to list everything.  But I am thinking of redoing the bucket line as not happy with that.



Next up the hammer ship concept.  The prow needs some thinking, as to how the hammer interacts once fully down.  Drop the ram or not?



Lastly, the rough version of the catamaran Destroyer.  I am going to name all these ships properly btw, when inspiration strikes.  The side sponson things will be done as horns.  There's two decks of rotating guns, as it's not obvious on the design.



Something I note looking at the work of you guys is the surface level detail over the hull is much greater than I had planned.  But I could take my designs up many levels of detail. Wink


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This post was last modified: 09-11-2017 04:41 AM by Admiral.

11-09-2015 06:37 PM
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Dînadan
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Post: #25
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Dînadan 11-09-2015

I'd say either drop the ram on the hammer ship, or maybe have two rams, one on each side with a gap between them for the hammer to swing down into - the rams pin the enemy ship in place long enough for the hammer to be dropped.


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11-09-2015 06:40 PM
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Jackswift
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Jackswift 11-09-2015

@Grimstonfire:  Your WIP ship looks great.  I wasn't sure how the chainsaw would come out, but I really like the result.  The ship looks very, very mean.  A massive engine of war like that would require a large input of power.  Such a beast would be all boilers and war machine with very little room for anything else.

The hammer ship is a great idea as well, and the concept sketch has me looking forward to seeing the build.

Dînadan Wrote:
I'd say either drop the ram on the hammer ship, or maybe have two rams, one on each side with a gap between them for the hammer to swing down into - the rams pin the enemy ship in place long enough for the hammer to be dropped.


I second this suggestion.  Two rams is a great idea and fits this ship type given the concept art very well.  Destroying the hull of your opponent's vessel while at the same time holding in place to loot, take slaves, etc. is a very CD way of doing things.   Cheers!

11-09-2015 09:12 PM
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Admiral
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Post: #27
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Admiral 11-10-2015

Wow, great indeed! Both sketches and sculpt. Ziggurat bridges are a master stroke. The chainsaw ship is brutal. Two rams on the hammer ship would give the impression of horns or tusks, which wouldn't be out of place. Also, leave a small gap in the railing at the fore for the hammer to come down through when bashing hostile vessels.

How will the ships cast? Would the hammer be a one, two or three-part separate piece, and will the chainsaw be castable as it is? How about the two chimneys at the back, will they be loose in the mould, or do they work even with a gap in between in the centreline? And the railings, are the hull meant to be cast top-down? I'm sure you've got it all figured out and I'm probably underestimating the undercuts resin moulds can take, so I'm mainly asking to learn something new. Also, are the pointed crenellations on the galley tower castable (with the galley cast from the side)? Or does the top need to be removed to be cast standing as a separate piece?

Fantastic ship ideas, Grim and Jackswift. This is turning out better and better. Cheers!


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11-10-2015 01:55 AM
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Bloodbeard
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Post: #28
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Bloodbeard 11-10-2015

This project is great. Love the work you guys are doing. Very nice work.


11-10-2015 06:23 AM
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Fuggit Khan
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Fuggit Khan 11-10-2015

Grimstonefire Wrote:
So here is my early WIP ship.


Wow! That is freakin' awesome Grimstonefire, I love it! A really nice original concept, that also really fits in well with the classic Man O' War ship designs. The Ziggurat Bridge is seriously cool. Well done sir! Cheers!


Jackswift Wrote:
@Fuggit Khan:  Thank you sir... and nice catch.  Frankly, I'm not really sure where "Kansas" came from. Cheers!

No worries, I knew what you meant, very cool that you knew of those ships in the first place...the CSS Virginia and CSS Albemarle are my most favorite ships of that era Happy

Hashut!


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This post was last modified: 09-11-2017 04:42 AM by Admiral.

11-10-2015 01:14 PM
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Grimstonefire
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Grimstonefire 11-10-2015

Cheers guys!

Loads of questions.

@admiral.
They can take much more  undercuts than vulcanised moulds.  But you're right to make me think more about casting angels.  I normally figure this stuff out as I go Wink. Add a bit here and there.

For example, the hammer needs to be a single shaft (not split) and a separate piece I think.

The chainsaw should be ok as they are chunky points, but I'll need advice of caster on that.  

I imagine the mould line running around railing height on all our ships not cast on their side.


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11-10-2015 03:07 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #31
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Grimstonefire 11-10-2015

Just had another crazy idea for a ship.  Imagine a yoyo sitting upright on a table, with each half being a huge spiky paddle wheel and maybe a slim cannon mounted on a bit of boat in the middle.  Visually its mostly paddlewheels that from sides look like the big hellcannon wheels.

Was going to put a pic of the attack boat things from Wookie planet in attack of clones


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11-10-2015 03:24 PM
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Dînadan
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Dînadan 11-10-2015

Grimstonefire Wrote:
Just had another crazy idea for a ship.  Imagine a yoyo sitting upright on a table, with each half being a huge spiky paddle wheel and maybe a slim cannon mounted on a bit of boat in the middle.  Visually its mostly paddlewheels that from sides look like the big hellcannon wheels.

Was going to put a pic of the attack boat things from Wookie planet in attack of clones


Sort of like two doomwheels with a cannon strapped between them?


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11-10-2015 03:48 PM
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Admiral
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Admiral 11-10-2015

Why not? We're striking out for bizarre and unusual mechanical terrors, and that certainly fills all criteria. Sounds like the contraption of a mad inventor. Nice idea! Would there be a rudder extension backward somewhere? I think that would help bring a look of balance to the paddlewheel roller.

Thanks for clarifying points of casting!


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This post was last modified: 11-10-2015 06:19 PM by Admiral.

11-10-2015 04:09 PM
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Jackswift
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Jackswift 11-13-2015

Another sketch.  This time modeled (loosely) after the monitor.  This would be an assault and boarding vessel, still large, probably 4-5cm.  

The hammer idea came entirely from Grimstonefire's design and works brilliantly in the Chaos Dwarf style of warmachine.  For this vessel type, the sketch has hammers which would be used primarily for capture and boarding.  

The vessel could alternately be modeled without the hammers and revised to a harpoon vessel or similar.  The idea of the use of hammers to capture a ship from along side captured my imagination and I had to sketch it out.

The steam driven hammers would have gears embedded within the swivel (rather than pistons) to raise the hammers again as needed.  In this instance the hammers are designed to slip gear and lower quickly to one side or the other of the assault ship crushing down through the first few decks of a vessel the ship comes along side, pinning it in a virtually unbreakable grip.  Depending on the captain's intent, the assault vessel can then either swivel the cannon and obliterate the captured quarry or open sealed hatches to disgorge a boarding party of Infernal Marines to cross to the stricken quarry via the lowered beams and take the vessel.

The turrets could be modeled onto the ship directly (with cannons low to the deck) or as separate pieces.  Hammers if included and the smokestack would have to be extra pieces.  



This might work better if I move the forward cannon further into the bow and put a little more space between the hammer beams.

I'm going to have to start building out these ideas.  It occurs to me that 3d Design and printing would be another good way to design and print ships at this scale.  I need to teach myself how to do that.

This post was last modified: 11-13-2015 12:14 PM by Jackswift.

11-13-2015 12:09 PM
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Dînadan
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Dînadan 11-13-2015

The problem with 3D printing is that unless it's very high end it'll have printing lines on it that will need to be cleaned off.


Nice design - only recommendation I can think of is moving the smokestack and have a extra hammer between the two you've got, but instead of a hammer have it be a boarding ramp.  Not sure where the smokestack could be moved to though :/


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11-13-2015 12:33 PM
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Jackswift
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Jackswift 11-13-2015

That's a good idea.  I'll have to see how much space I have to work with at scale.  My initial thought was to have the beam of the hammer be the boarding ramp once it has fallen across the ship being attacked.

11-13-2015 03:37 PM
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Dînadan
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Dînadan 11-13-2015

Jackswift Wrote:
.  My initial thought was to have the beam of the hammer be the boarding ramp once it has fallen across the ship being attacked.


That's possible but it'd cause problems if it didn't penetrate all the way through as the boarding party would either have to clamber down awkwardly or jump down into the enemy deck.  A seperate ramp (especially if it telescoped) could avoid that.


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11-13-2015 04:01 PM
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Admiral
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Admiral 11-13-2015

This is getting better and better, gentlemen. Pirate

Great design, not least the hammers/pickaxes! It's more than "just" a medium gunship with that invention. I'm all for it, with or without corvus boarding ramp, and with or without loose turrets.


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This post was last modified: 11-13-2015 05:13 PM by Admiral.

11-13-2015 05:13 PM
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Jackswift
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Post: #39
RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]Jackswift 11-13-2015

Quote:
That's possible but it'd cause problems if it didn't penetrate all the way through as the boarding party would either have to clamber down awkwardly or jump down into the enemy deck.  A seperate ramp (especially if it telescoped) could avoid that.


Very true.  I hadn't considered that (hmm...  maybe what this needs is... chaos dwarf paratroopers instead of marines... to get from the beam to the deck... yeah... that's the ticket... Shock).  It definitely needs a separate ramp and telescoped design would work well.  We shall see what I can do when building this to reflect that.  The ramp might fall to the sculpted details.

Quote:
The problem with 3D printing is that unless it's very high end it'll have printing lines on it that will need to be cleaned off.


Agreed.  If that method were used at anything less then high resolution, the initial print would require cleanup and be used for prototyping versus cranking out models.  A mold for casting would then be created from the cleaned up model.  One of these years I'm going to build my printer and see what kind of resolution I can get... Wink

This post was last modified: 11-13-2015 06:14 PM by Jackswift.

11-13-2015 06:10 PM
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RE: On Dark Tides - Cooperative blog for sculpting and casting ships [08-11-2015]gIL^ 11-13-2015

I would love to see a 28mm chaos dwarf ship. I know the logistics are tough but that would be amazing to see, Even a small ship.



This post was last modified: 11-13-2015 10:40 PM by gIL^.

11-13-2015 10:39 PM
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