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SPOILERS - The Last Jedi
Author MessageSPOILERS - The Last Jedi
cornixt
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SPOILERS - The Last Jedicornixt 12-19-2017

Let's start with what it was like. It was like someone wanted to make Guardians of the Galaxy movie in the Star Wars universe. It was like someone made a sequal to Space Balls and took out some of the jokes. It was like someone misunderstood the use of humour to add levity to a serious situation and just added dumb gags everywhere.

Just like the previous episode, this borrows heavily from the original trilogy plots in several areas, but not quite as much. Apprentice attempts to learn from reluctant Jedi master, is called away by visions. Evil apprentice is not initially convinced to turn to the light, but does and slays his master. Ground assault against rebel base with rebels trying to flee.

What's wrong
Did we need yet another movie where Finn has to learn not to be so selfish again? This time he seemed far more concerned with his own skin while Rey was a secondary concern. This looks like a last minute script change that they didn't properly resolve.

The whole side jaunt to Monte Carlo of Finn and Rose added nothing and didn't progress the plot at all. It felt a bit like it was squeezed in as some kind of political commentary about war and rich people. Stuff happened, but they may as well have just flown over to Snoke's ship and been caught immediately. Or not gone at all and had Poe try out any other alternative plan that inspires him to mutiny.

There's a freaking drunk leprechaun.

It's a jailable offense to park on the beach?

The iron.

Supergirl Leia. I'm assuming this was going to be expanded upon in the next movie about how she is also great with the force, but on its own it just seemed silly.

Why do the ships need someone on board to fly them? Has autopilot not been invented in the galaxy full of robots? If suicidally using (or remotely activating) a hyperdrive through a ship is that good, why has no one done it before? What is this hyperdrive string thing all about? It seemed like they couldn't track everyone through hyperspace, seemed a bit vaguely defined.

The woman with the long neck who took command. Leading is not about never telling anyone you have a plan but that they must trust you regardless. BS reason for the mutiny plotline.

BB-8 ex machina. Need to fill a plot hole? Get BB-8 to do something. Or a random guy who is good at codes but chooses to sleep in a jail for some reason.

Rose crashed into Finn somehow. She was behind him or pulled off to the side but still managed to catch up to stop him. Maybe the super battering ram cannon slowed him down a bit, but it seemed like she came out of nowhere.

Telepathy phone calls. Eurgh. It was like a plot from a Hallmark romance movie. Snoke died so easily. Not even a little backstory about how he took over the First Order? How he manipulated Kylo Ren? I know that these kinds of things weren't explained in the original Star Wars move about the Emperor and Vader, but that was a cold opening and this was a continuing story. There is a clear gap.

I'm not upset about the Porgs. If you've been up to the Shetland Islands you'll see a ton of these funny sea birds, so they just seem like natural scenery. The frog-nuns were unnecessary though.

Conclusion
I wouldn't say it was a bad movie, but the plotholes are hard to ignore and there is so much pointless weirdness.

I feel like you could edit it down into an okay movie if you took out all of Finn and Rose, and ended it just after Rey leaves Snoke's ship. That cuts out most of the plot holes and dumbness while ending it in pretty much the same place. The fact that you can cut out such huge swathes of runtime without any fundamental problem to the plot shows how thin it was.


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12-19-2017 12:06 PM
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Post: #2
RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediXander 12-19-2017

I enjoyed the film when I saw it last Thursday. But the plot holes are so bad and so numerous, it's truly a wonder no one fixed them at any point during production.

For the longest Star Wars movie, it wasted so much time with plot-useless moments, as you said.

I agree that removing the Finn/Rose storyline would make this movie so much better, but the part that make me the most angry was the way Poe was treated. This guy just finished saving the galaxy by risking his life continually, but it treated like some sort of selfish rogue, when he's only ever been shown to be a resistance fighter. But no! We have to withhold the plan from everyone for no discernable reason. And so casually!

They literally just finished explaining that in their current situation it's a matter of time before they all die and the resistance is extinguished, and then Holdo is like, "Gee, Poe, you sure are a whiny bitch!" YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE, LADY! Her character is so bad, ugh!

So yeah, just have Holdo tell Poe the plan, skip the Rey/Finn part and most of the plot holes get patched.

Star Wars! Why u do dis?!

All the actors did a decent job and it was entertaining, but the plot is so bad!


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12-19-2017 01:08 PM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediAbecedar 12-20-2017

So So totally disappointed is all I'll say. And that is the first for me


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12-20-2017 04:30 AM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last Jedibas_2312 12-20-2017

The biggest problem with this movie to me was the pacing. It felt like it would go on forever, and I really missed the flow of the first movie. The entire Finn subplot was unnessecary, and even put the Rebels in more trouble after there were caught.

I had more fun rewatching The Force Awakens before this film, than during Last Jedi.

Grumpy Luke was lovely though, and I like Rey and Kylo in this movie.

Another positive to me was they really screwed over the internet theories by killing Snoke, and telling us Reys parents were nobodies.


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12-20-2017 10:37 AM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediWillmark 12-22-2017

People dogged the prequels and I’m surprised that they are now seeing that The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi have their own set of issues with TLJ having a lot.




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12-22-2017 07:04 AM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediGrimstonefire 12-22-2017

I'd say they easily could've cut half an hour off that.  Personally I would've killed off Finn saving the others in some decent battle.

They could've added a lot more mystery here and there with Rey.  I was surprised to see Snoke killed, they didn't do enough with that by far compared to palpatine etc in the prequels.  Hell, he didn't even hold a lightsabre!!?

The whole casino and escape run was just a big waste of time.

I did really like the luke last stand projection thing.  That was pretty awesome.  And I was quite gutted to see him be killed off, as I was expecting some amazing jedi skills to be showed.

However, on reflection there are two things that strike me.  Firstly, Luke never was a Jedi Master really, he could call himself whatever he wanted by being the last one alive...  But compared to any of the jedi masters of the prequels he is barely skilled at all.  Barely above a knight.  So with that in my mind it makes the jedi projection across space very skillful but I think my expectations of seeing amazing lightsabre battles are just unrealistic as he doesn't know how!  I'd hoped to see a jedi master fighting with say 6 lightsabres all floating using the force.  Or pulling a ship out of space.  Or *something*  He wouldn't have lasted 2 minutes against Anakin skywalker (clone wars age).

Secondly, they may actually make Luke far, far more powerful as a force ghost.  For example training kids across the galaxy, fighting with lightning etc.  But Imo they were just eager to kill him off and he will barely feature in the last part of that story arc.

My main gripe here though is that Kylo ren is just a whining kid.  Where luke suffered for not having a master to train him, Kylo ren is still just a whining kid with no real skills.  And he's the main baddie for the next film!?! It's going to be terrible, and such a waste.


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12-22-2017 07:08 PM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediAdmiral 12-28-2017

Some decent aesthetics though not some striking novelty. Some quite enjoyable moments in there. Some good acting (the pilot and hacker were certainly enjoyable, and kicking the foot swearing through the floor of the vehicle was a moment of humour worthy the franchise). Worst story and worst Star Wars movie so far. Plot holes galore, and most importantly the movie as a whole failed to sweep you up in it with a gleam in its eye. It failed to involve, and carried less surprise than it should have.

Killing off Snoke already was a surprise, but a bad one. He was a face, a name, and a pale copy of Palpatine, and then he died. Star Wars isn't built on depth, but it must deliver on an enjoyable surface. Snoke hit no strings. There were hints, and then he got axed before having any explanation or big moment to remember.

The death of Snoke could actually have turned out into a good plot twist, had Rey accepted Kylo's offer. Rome anew: Death to the republic eternally, and off to a giant power struggle of who should be emperor for the last episode of the trilogy. That would have been a breath of fresh air!

But no. Instead it all trundles on in the trajectory set by the first of the new movies, with a whiner as antagonist.

Luke's death worked, though. Too early, certainly (what about the remaining lessons and his reasons for wishing an end to the Jedi?), but the death itself worked (not too interesting diversion part). Not having more of Han Solo is a pity, however. He made Star Wars.

It's watchable and it's never unwelcome to see costly cinematic projects with lots of work put into background, costumes, vehicles and creatures. But it's not a story that grips your interest and make the viewers shine with enthusiasm, thrill and fun. I have no expectations for the third movie, so it shouldn't be hard for it to deliver something worthwhile in my eyes.

So far, the original trilogy stands as a movie classic, the prequels are decent albeit lackluster in many parts, and this trilogy is the palest of the whole lot. I've got lots of more hope for the upcoming standalone films.

And finally, with Rebels systematically kamikaze attacking Imperial ships in every movie and game, why is a small to medium-sized rammer ship class not a standing feature of every navy in this universe since centuries ago?

____


I should perhaps also mention that I count it a point in this movie's favour that it struck out for a more original plot than the previous movie with its blatant super weapon copy. Seeing a Star Wars casino was welcome in my eyes as well, although that story line wasn't a strong one by any means. Ah well, I enjoy looking at things, so a poor plot isn't all together such a killer.


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This post was last modified: 01-03-2018 11:51 AM by Admiral.

12-28-2017 07:28 PM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediDînadan 01-01-2018

Saw it last night and really enjoyed it, but I expect to find the plot holes more glaring with repeat viewings.  Overall it did feel like a degree of Empire plot wise, but is different enough not to be a ripoff, so at least it has that going for it.

Disappointed with the decision to kill off Snoak as I find him a far more interesting villain than Emo Ren.  Also disappointed with the captain of the dreadnought getting killed off so quickly as he was pure gold.  Phasma is again wasted, it’s clear she’s intended as this trilogy’s Boba Fett, so it’s a shame they didn’t make good use of her rather than again trying to bank on the mystique and cool factor; Fett was so cool that his takedown was anticlimactic, and Phasma has fallen into the same mould.

Agreed that we could have done without the Space Monte Carlo subplot.  They could easily have had a code breaker character onboard already; heck he/she could even have been one of those people Rose tazed offscreen to explain how the main characters knew them and how they were able to get them to agree to the plan while still making them betraying the heroes plausible if the writers still wanted the betrayal plot point (although what may have been better is after the heroes are captured Phasma reveals that that sensor operator reported the sensor glitch, someone reported the uniforms stolen from the ship dry cleaners (side note I actually like the notion of the ship having a dry cleaners onboard - makes it feel more like an actual working/living ship), that droid reported seeing BB8 under the trash can and someone put it all together and realised the objective to disable the hyperspace tracker).  What would have been better is them using some trickery to make the shuttle look like a piece of derbies that had fallen off the rebel cruiser, drifting powered down until the destroyer was on top of them and then powering up to get through the sensor glitch.

Speaking of the shuttle, if it was so easy for that to get away, 1) why wasn’t it heavily guarded to prevent deserters stealing it and 2) why didn’t they send someone in it away with a message to try and reach another rebel cell/transmitter/etc?

The chase also doesn’t make much sense.  I know hard physics has never been Star Wars’ strong point, but unless there were forced acting on the rebel ships the whole fuel thing shouldn’t have been an issue; with no external forces the ships should keep moving at a constant speed with no deceleration (or at least negligible deceleration from interstellar dust) even without fuel.  And when they do run out, they shouldn’t ‘tumble’ backwards like they did.  I think there should have been reference to the destroyers using tractor beams as that way you could explain the fuel consumption as them constantly having to keep the engines burning to stay out of range and when they do run out why they get pulled back towards the destroyers.  Either that or have it be Snoke or another Force user using Force Pull to try and drag them back.

Didn’t like Holdo, she’s a terrible Admiral in my opinion.  I can get her not wanting to spill everything in the Plan in case there’s a traitor or bug or whatever, but going “Do as I say no questions asked.” is not the way to lead, especially in such a desperate situation where people are constantly trying to desert and you have a hothead champing at the bit to take action; telling him that she has a plan approved of by Leia, that security reasons mean she can’t go into details, and giving him some titbits of info on it would have gone a long way towards preventing his mutiny.  Plus, why wasn’t she in uniform?

The bombers at the start of the film are a terrible design; I can accept bombers being slow and not able to zip around, but they crawled along so slowly as to be useless.  I also think it would have been better to have the bomber crew in EVA/spacesuits rather than regular uniforms considering the bombbay opens into space; I’d hazard s guess that they have the same forcefields that hangers have to keep the air in, but it’d make more sense to have the crew in suits rather than the expense of building a forcefield into the ship and hoping that you don’t have a system failure while the bombbay doors are open.


Admiral Wrote:
And finally, with Rebels systematically kamikaze attacking Imperial ships in every movie and game, why is a small to medium-sized rammer ship class not a standing feature of every navy in this universe since centuries ago?

They did actually have those in the old EU, although they weren’t widespread I think.  On top of that they were technically droids as they were fully automated so you didn’t lose a crew doing it.

I think unfortunately it’s a consequence of how stunning the visual was in RotJ which has caused it to be replicated across the other media.  In TotJ that was supposed to be an extremely lucky and unprecedented occurance; it was a fluke that that A-wing managed to slip through the point defences (and even then it looked more out of control than intentional).

In this case though I think it’s a problem with not knowing how hyperspace and whatnot actually works; this could easily be fixed if they’d established that you need a ship over a curtain size to do enough damage and the cost required to build a big enough ship and equip it with the necessary hyperdrive makes it prohibitive to do.


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01-01-2018 10:05 AM
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Post: #9
RE: SPOILERS - The Last Jeditjub 01-01-2018

Saw it the other day, thought it was ok. But agree with most people above, not a big fan of Kylo Ren as a villain either. Atleast it got me excited enough to want to play some Star Wars rpg again. Happy


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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediVapo 02-10-2018

I saw the movie a week after it came out, but this is the first forum I'm reading for reviews. You guys are saying a lot of what I felt after watching it weeks ago. I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I was entertained, but this was the first Star Wars film in the movies that I didn't see twice. I'm not going to go into details because a lot of what I feel is written above. Anyhow, I enjoyed Rogue One and am excited to see more Star Wars movies in the future. I'd love to see them tackle the Darth Bane trilogy.

02-10-2018 02:34 AM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last Jedicornixt 02-10-2018

Despite all my negativity above, I did enjoy watching the movie. But it has so many flaws that it's not good. I just don't know why they allowed it.


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02-10-2018 11:11 AM
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RE: SPOILERS - The Last JediAdmiral 02-21-2018

My brother, who fell asleep for 30 minutes in cinema during this movie, have been reading various criticisms against the Last Jedi and shared a few of them with me.

One thing the movie attempted was right, and that was to make something new in the Star Wars universe. Episode VII was little more than a rehashed Episode IV, but VIII was more than just a rehash of V (even though the intentionally similar streaks are obvious, such as remote master teacher and rebels hunted, but they were handled differently enough).

This was a step in the right direction, because even though VII is a better movie than VIII, I'd rather watch VIII since it isn't just a nostalgia replay of IV.

So, new takes in the Star Wars genre, positive. But it was not done in the right way for the most part, which makes the movie fall flat. There are still some golden moments, in my eyes, such as the codebreaker pointing out that a maligned arms dealer sold to both sides of the conflict, but most of what transpired between them were too flawed. Rebel mutiny was also fresh and promising, but ended on the wrong tone because of the admiral's faulty over-arcing storyline.

Further, I saw in passing somewhere that Abrams first was publicly burdened by all the scathing critique, and then went on the counter offensive by pointing out that audiences are not used to strong female characters. The lesson to be learnt here is probably neither to go public with such imposed doubts, nor to respond to them but instead let the production's results speak for themselves. If a director or other creative person finds himself in a position of much negative critique, then digest it and evaluate it silently, or at most just explain why choices were made and leave it at that. As for the strong lead woman comment, it's nonsense. Audiences were neither troubled by Alien's Riddley, nor the main character of Episode VII just before this very movie. This retort only damages the director's prestige.

The moviemakers did think about having Luke's bionic hand fall to the ground at the end of the movie where he dies and the corpse dissipates. So far, so good, at least they didn't forget about it. But apparently they decided against it. This is a major missed opportunity! Anyone with author or director aspirations, take note: Having Luke's fleshly form disappear like a spirit in the air but having his mechanical replacement fall to the ground is a strong way of driving home an ominous sense of the tragedy and sacrifice that have transpired.

The bionic hand could just fall to the rock amid cloth, but the camera could also zoom in on it with cue ominous music, or hover above Luke's death spot, hand clearly visible, only to zoom out as the screen goes dark. Think about it: The classic hero of the original Star Wars trilogy dead at the end of Episode VII, with the bionic replacement he received at the end of Episode V after his confrontation with Darth Vader dropping to the ground as the character dies. It's such a strong reminder and signal to the audience, that the conscious decision not to make use of it must be classified as a major error. Don't shy from such takes, play them up instead!


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