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Army medals and points with multiple systems
Author MessageArmy medals and points with multiple systems
Uther the unhinged
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Post: #1
Army medals and points with multiple systemsUther the unhinged 05-22-2018

Do CDO still do army medals?

I was wondering in these days of AoS, T9A, 8th ed ( and all the other eds), KoW and Dragon Rampant (sorry if I have missed some). What points sysrem do we/ should we use?

Do you think we should have a figure based system of our own that could cross gaming systems?

For example:

Troopers.                    1pt
Flag/banner/icon.      +1pt
Musician.                  +1pt
Troop leader.             +1pt

Cavalry.                      2pts
(boar centaurs, gw bull centaurs,
Boar knights, half breeds)

Monstrous cavalry.       4pts
( FW bull centaurs, big figures)

Monstrous infantry.       3pts
(Kdaii, standard golems, big hat ogres)

Hand held atrillery.       +2pts
Plus troopers eg bazooka crew of 2
Would be 2+2=4

Stand alone artillery.    +4pts
Plus trooper crew

Ride on artillery.           +5pts
Plus visible crew

Large monster.               7pts
Plus handlers/riders
Eg greater golem, giant
Great taurus, lammasu
Destroyer etc

Hero.                            +2pt s
Plus base figure pts

Sorceror.                        +3pts
Plus base figure cost

Eg Dracoath= trooper 1
                     Sorceror 3
     Cinderbreath= large monster 7
=11

Allies ( eg big hat ogres, blotcs or harpies same base cost
Slavr races gobs/ hobgobs half base cost

Then all you have to do is work out points for medals

What do you think?

As you can tell I was bored last night


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This post was last modified: 05-22-2018 12:56 PM by Admiral.

05-22-2018 04:10 AM
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Xander
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Post: #2
RE: Army medals and ponts  with multiple systemsXander 05-22-2018

Haha, neat.

It's true that the army-size medals ought to be updated. For now, if you think you are deserving of a certain badge based on the images you have posted of your army, then simply request it. A discerning staffer should still be able to award relevant medals. Happy


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Post: #3
RE: Army medals and ponts  with multiple systemsAdmiral 05-22-2018

Good thing you brought it up! The farther we get from our last common system, 8th edition, the more relevant an update becomes.

This has been discussed in a restricted forum section previously (so can't link, sorry!) and my proposal ran along similar line: A CDO points system for claiming army medals now that we're split across different game systems. The points below are chosen at random, but the direction is to get an army total corresponding to the 1000, 2000, 10 000 points and so on army medals we already have. Perhaps not necessary, but it makes the medals' given point values still valid.

Quote:
Here's an example of how such a streamlined list could look like, with nothing written on characters (input needed!) and with entirely random numbers just to get the ball rolling:

Chaos Dwarf Warrior (close combat): 12 pts
Chaos Dwarf Warrior (shooting): 14 pts

Hobgoblin Warrior/Man-sized Slave Rabble (shooting/close combat): 9 pts
Hobgoblin Wolf Rider: 15 pts
Orc/Slave on 25mm bases (foot): 10 pts
Orc Slave (mounted):16 pts

Chaos Dwarf Berzerker: 19 pts
Bound Daemon (Man/Orc-sized): 20 pts
Bound Daemon (Ogre-sized): 40 pts

Bull Centaur (small): 24 pts
Bull centaur (large): 45 pts
Whirlwind/Tenderizer: 70 pts

Vehicle (train, tank, chariot, airship, Juggernaut): 200 pts
Heavy Artillery: 170 pts (+30 pts with Ogre slave)
Light Artillery: 85 pts
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower: 60 pts

Slave Giant: 180 pts
Colossal Monster: 250 pts

Altar of Hashut (platform): 350 pts


One member's proposal was closer to yours, although with 100 CDO points standing for 2000 army points.

Another proposal was to use Thommy H's 8th edition army book, one which has extra appeal given that it stands as the epitome of pre-End Times Chaos Dwarf rules compilation (even if not play tested), with entries for all manner of units. And it's made by a CDO member at that. But it would require having to read up on said army book to hammer out an army.

Nothing final was decided during last discussion, so we could all knock our heads together and settle on something this time around.

Would like to see what people think. Whatever is decided upon, the new system has to be inclusive and include points for such things as Gargoyles and flamethrower teams (Kings of War), Disciples of Lughar (T9A) and all things from previous Warhammer editions. No magic items, obviously. I'm not the right man to write together rules or judge if anything with numbers work, but I look forward to see what will come out of here.

And indeed, Xander is right. That's the modus operandi for the time being.

Cheers, Uther!

So, everyone: Welcome to give your proposals and criticism. Your system might be the one that gets used!


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This post was last modified: 05-22-2018 01:55 PM by Admiral.

05-22-2018 12:50 PM
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Post: #4
RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsUther the unhinged 05-23-2018

Thanks Xander, I may get round to it eventually. However it was more just a thought experiment.

The gaming system world has fractured/diversified hugely, It may unify a bit but I doubt it at present. GW is looking for IP protectable ideas and aesthetics. As GW moves from standard fantsy othees will move in. I suspect as the challenger companies like mantic grow they might look for original IP aesthetics too. T9A is fan based and could go anywhere. If we pick a new points system it needs to be quite flexible.

I play AoS, I would love to see what the KoW, T9A and Drsgon rampant players think.


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05-23-2018 03:53 AM
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Post: #5
RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsCarcearion 05-23-2018

Hmm... the only hitch I can see with the proposed points systems is that KoW (And DR can as well) have sufficiently lower model counts for legal units.

My "Regiment" (20 man) block only requires 11 dudes on the multi-base. However many KoW players put some pretty significant effort into the basing itself (in many armies every single unit is basically a diorama). A strict per model count would basically halve the value of most KoW armies.

This could be solved with a "counts as", my regiment is legally a 20 man block in my system so it could be worth 20 men worth of points. But even putting allot of work into the basing  (which most of us do) I don't know that it's worth basically doubling our points per model from a "how much work did you do" perspective.

I guess the question really is the army medal meant to be more about volume painted or more about fieldable forces?


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This post was last modified: 05-23-2018 02:25 PM by Carcearion.

05-23-2018 02:18 PM
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Post: #6
RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsUther the unhinged 05-23-2018

Yes, Carcearion you have asked the important question really. What do army medals reward? Effort , numbers  , what. I think personally counts as could work as it would include unit fillers from 8th ed etc. Also you guys put lots of effort into basing should be rewarde imo. Question then is how many troopers % wise do you need as a minimum I guess. If you have seen my bases you’ll know I am not the one to ask.


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05-23-2018 02:28 PM
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RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsCarcearion 05-23-2018

Well as far as troop % wise in KoW Rules for that do exist - it's the minimum model count (or MMC). Which is fairly flexible but does have hard numbers attached to it. Wether or not we would want to use that as a guideline though is hard to say.


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RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemscornixt 05-23-2018

If we are making up numbers, then they should at least be simple. Try to round off where feasible to the nearest 5.

It should absolutely be based on the number of models - if you use a game system that only requires 11 models in a unit then you only get credit for those 11 models and not for 9 empty bases. But if there is significant diorama content (or a unit filler that took some effort) then I think it can still count as long as you haven't bulked out your entire army like that.


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RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsCarcearion 05-23-2018

Hmm... a vast majority of KoW armies use the minimum model count but do so with scenic basing which largely have few or no things which would be thought of as unit fillers - it's all one big decorated piece with units in more of a skirmish formation (but scenic multi-bases tend to look full at Minimum Model Count since they are allowed to take up more space individually instead of being tightly packed).

Going off of a strictly counting units and fillers pieces I'd say basically every army I have ever seen that was built for KoW specifically could never qualify for a 2,000 point army medal.


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RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsAdmiral 05-23-2018

Would it be possible or desirable to set up a list, where X number of points in KoW, Y in T9A and Z in AoS equals e.g. 2000 points amy medal? Without magic items? That way Kings of War armies gets a sporting chance.


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Post: #11
RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsCarcearion 05-23-2018

It’s really kind of a tough question for me. I think it would be easier to either go by model count and declare the medals intention is about painting a vast collection of miniatures or to either judge everything by it's systems own points value: the “2,000 points medal” being whatever that games equivalent is of a “Standard Full Sized Game” (Which for KoW happens to be 2,000 I’m not sure about The 9th Age or Dragon Rampant).

If we did want to try and split the difference I think either Tjub or TheHoodedMan could be quite qualified to figure out a point’s equivalency handicap for KoW and other armies (If I recall both of them are quite familiar with WHFB and KoW, and TheHoodedMan also has extensive experience with The 9th Age).

Another option to help prop up MMC KoW Armies could be to add model count for having scenic basing (which could also count towards any army, so a full rank and file of chaos dwarf unit also with significant scenic basing would be worth quite a hefty amount!). Something like time and half model count for scenic basing might be a fair way to point it out.


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05-23-2018 07:57 PM
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RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemstjub 05-24-2018

I would go for a generic system, more based on actual models than game rules. Since we are based on several game systems these days. Model count should work well for KoW too.


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RE: Army medals and points with multiple systemsHashut's Blessing 01-22-2020

Personally, I think assigning points that differ to literally all of the gaming systems and then working out your total and then seeing if you match the numbers required makes things a little convoluted, makes more confusion than it solves. Two alternate proposals are (although Xander's suggestion works at least in the mean time and is simplest of all, albeit potentially having to wait for a response):

1) Create medals for each system, using their average army size as the standard. (E.G. 1k, 2k, 5k for 8th Edition; 1k, 2k, 4k for Age of Sigmar; 400, 800, 1.5k for Kings of War, etc - note, I don't know Kings of War so picked some differing numbers - and you can collect points for each system for medals). This does need further thought before implementation - primary thought being whether or not it's allowed to have models count towards more than one game; if only one game, do we consider that maybe characters can count for more than one game or is it a blanket rule, etc?

2) Use a simpler conversion chart - using the numbers above (again, this may take some development based on people knowing what The 9th Age average size is compared to Dragon Rampant, etc), we list out what game system counts as a Bronze medals (Kings of War 400, 8th 1k, AoS 1k, t9A 650, DA 900), what each system counts for silver (KoW 800, 8th 2k, AoS 2k, t9A 1k, DA 1.2k), each for gold (KoW 1.5k, 8th 5k, AoS 4k, t9A 2k, DA 2.3k). Don't get too hung up on those numbers either, I only know 8th and AoS and chose numbers for other systems at random. The point being, that saying a 'standard' game size for 8th/AoS is 2k and KoW is 800 and t9A is 1k and DA is 1.2k means they all count for the medal that currently says 2k and then we just adjust the others in the same way (a small game of 8th/AoS is 1k, so the others drop to their lower points values too - it isn't necessarily proportional either. Star Wars Legion has a 500pt Skirmish mode and 800pt full game for example, so the 800 would be equivalent to 2k and the 500 equivalent to the 1k, even though it's not halved etc.).

A last additional thought is - is it worth adding in a medal for specialist games? Whether one for each game (a medal for Blood Bowl, a medal for Mordheim, etc) or a medal series for number of specialist games (bronze for Blood Bowl or Mordheim or..., silver for Blood Bowl AND Mordheim or..., gold for Blood Bowl AND Mordheim AND..., basically bronze for a single completed group, silver for two in any combination, gold for three in any combination, etc).


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