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1 Votes - 5 Average   Make Zharr-Naggrund Great Again
Author MessageMake Zharr-Naggrund Great Again
Nicodemus
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Post: #1
Make Zharr-Naggrund Great AgainNicodemus 07-20-2018

The title of the subject is to draw you in - the real topic here is CDO traffic and trends in the greater Warhammer/CD community.

Here is a graphic showing the traffic coming to CDO since mid-2008 until today.  You can get this information (and more) for yourself by clicking on "Hits" in the footer of any CDO page


Page views, unique visitors and returning hits to the site all show the same trends, although the returning visits aren't as volatile. While the trend is toward decreasing traffic we're probably looking at more of a Bell curve as opposed to a precipitous decline.

This got me wondering about traffic patters and trends.  Google Trends gives us some interesting insight into all kinds of things.  I searched for "Chaos Dwarf" (the plural was below the threshold for tracking), as well as "Tamurkhan" and "Legion of Azgorh", and plotted the worldwide trends (including low volume regions).



The spike in Sept of 2009 coincides with the release of the Indy GT Dwarfs of Chaos Amy Book (late August 2009, I believe).  The Tamurkhan rumors started in 2010 and the book came out in October of 2011 (IIRC).  Sites like Bell of Lost Souls and DakkaDakka covered these and definitely increased the exposure and brief spikes in interest in Chaos Dwarfs.


I'm not sure we can replicate that massive spike in trend seen in 2009 as it was the first major thing for the tournament scene in quite a long time and lots of people wanted to look into it.  Now Chaos Dwarfs and the Legion of Azgorh aren't so novel to people.


So I guess if we want to have any hope of increasing traffic here and influencing trends in general it's to do more outreach, some of which will help.

Podcasts, vidoes, Word of Hashut, and fan army books (we're looking at you in particular ThommyH) are good ways to increase interest, but it will take time and effort. Certainly now that we're no longer an extreme "fringe" army like we used to be (debatable?) that's also going to decrease the interest and novelty for investing time and effort into producing these things. WoH was very popular and got covered on lots of sites and also won some awards.   ... food for thought at least.

~N


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This post was last modified: 04-28-2019 05:45 PM by Admiral.

07-20-2018 01:40 PM
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Fuggit Khan
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Post: #2
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainFuggit Khan 07-20-2018

I'm not trying to derail this thread into a Warhammer/AoS comparison, but let's face it...the death of Warhammer Fantasy at the hands of GW didn't exactly help. Yes, some people moved on to 9th Age,  KoW, etc...but I believe that the majority of players just quit altogether.
That's what happened to my old gaming store group, more than 40 people said *@#! it and left. The trash bin at the game tables, normally full of beer bottles, was full of tossed out armies.
Most gaming stores don't even stock AoS, to make more room for 40k etc.
That, coupled with all the other different game systems out there (sci-fi, warbands, skirmish, historical, etc) that have drawn people away permanently perhaps.
So what would help with traffic? Making Zharr Naggrund great again?
A new (and more practical) army book from GW/Forgeworld would be wonderful. New miniatures would be awesome.
And perhaps it's best left to us to make those things come true, because I'm not sure if GW will hear our prayers to Hashut Hashut!


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07-20-2018 09:04 PM
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Heavygear
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Post: #3
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainHeavygear 07-20-2018

The AoS 2.0 rules are pretty solid. They basically rewrote the list for LoA. I am looking forward to testing my fire dwarves vs. those new sea elves.  Have a listen to the honest wargamer. He recently did a review of the new battletome. He has some good insights on how to field a competative list and was planning to take his army on the tournament circuit. If you can get over the loss of hobgoblins there are still battles to be won with the dawi zharr.


"Kill the Humans! Kill the Elves! Keep the gold for ourselves!

This post was last modified: 07-21-2018 12:16 AM by Heavygear.

07-20-2018 11:25 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #4
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainNicodemus 07-21-2018

Fuggit Khan Wrote:
I'm not trying to derail this thread into a Warhammer/AoS comparison, but let's face it...the death of Warhammer Fantasy at the hands of GW didn't exactly help. Yes, some people moved on to 9th Age,  KoW, etc...but I believe that the majority of players just quit altogether.


No highjacking here. I can only speak for myself and the local gamers here. I haven’t played a single WHFB game since AoS came out (not one) and the local group here either quit or moved on to 9th Age.  Now 3 years out I still don’t think their bold direction was a good move... such things never are when it’s purely motives by legal/IP reasons.

Anyway, that mas June/July 2015 and trends certainly didn’t improve from that point on!

~N


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07-21-2018 01:56 AM
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tjub
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Post: #5
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great Againtjub 07-21-2018

Same here more or less, our group died. We moved on to 15mm Kings of War for several reasons, time logistical etc. But the last 6-7 months has really seen a boom of AoS around here in the south of Sweden, and is played as the "main" fantasy game without doubt.

Regarding CDOs trafic, leaving "the world that was" surly made an impact. But we are still in the lore for AoS and will without doubt expand our presence there. I would guess the main reason is general forum decline, most people tend to post on various facebook groups instead and ad to that the whole photo bucket thing. Facebook groups are a lot easier for a quick fix. I went there as well, but while being great for news its not as good for building a rich bank of information like a forum. I view a forum as more of a library and FB groups as a magazine I guess.
Anyway, the point I trying to make is that I guess forums have seen their glory days. But will survive as a database and for a more "hardcore" community who are deeper into it than just playing a game. Ive spent about 10 years here, doing several Chaos Dwarf armies and hardly play more than 5-10 games a year. For me CDO is for the love of all things CD, hobby, creativity and community no matter rules or scale. Nicodemus, your stuff though the years are amazing and one of the reasons I keep hanging on. Along with several other amazing people of course!

If we want to see a traffic spike I assume we need to attract more AoS players, but then its hard to compete with TGA and FB.


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This post was last modified: 07-21-2018 02:24 AM by tjub.

07-21-2018 02:23 AM
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Admiral
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Post: #6
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainAdmiral 07-21-2018

Interesting read, Nicodemus, and good call-out. Cheers!

As tjub points out, there is some future for forums like CDO if handled right, given Facebook's abominable archive mode. You can find old stuff on forums, but will be hard pressed to do so on Facebook for the most part: It's just a news flow. So it's very much about managing and expanding and reaching out with that library of resources, and draw people in if possible.

There is still room for the Chaos Dwarf community to reach out and be inventive, spearheading independent hobbyist creativity and army book building just as we've done before: Note that we're still a creative hobby hub, with an abnormally high percentage of artists and professional sculptors among us, and a healthy dose of converted miniatures going on at all times. CDO never lost its creativity, so there's good fuel for making a splash again if the efforts be made. The below artworks will serve as proof of active creativity.


By Hunter, illustration for this story.


As the events of 2015 have shown, a great many people have been completely dependent on one monodominant company for their hobby, so that the changed scene struck hard. If one take a step back and look at the fractured massed fantasy wargaming community, one quickly realize that there's nothing special about it and little reason for deep pessimism: The new state of affairs is just a repetition of how historical wargaming has looked like for years on end, without any one company dominating an entire niche, and with multiple miniature companies producing for a plethora of different game systems, many of which are free and community-driven. Historical wargamers have done just fine, swimming in these waters, and there seems to be no reason why fantasy wargamers couldn't do the same, even though the fantasy wargaming niche is much smaller.


From this story.


In fact, those parts of the Warhammer community which has not followed Age of Sigmar has found themselves in the same spot which we Chaos Dwarfs were in for years on end: Left out in the cold.

Adapting to this brave new world and putting the Chaos Dwarf footprint out there, would entail a multi-pronged assault. We're already quite well established in the Ninth Age, Age of Sigmar and Kings of War, but how about also putting the cloven hoof and our handsome beards into new games where we doesn't have a true presence? I'm thinking of such things as Oathmark, Frostgrave, and even A Song of Ice and Fire wargame if anyone feels up to a cross-over. Pappa Midnight have been toiling away at tailoring rules for his Chaos Dwarf creations in Dragon Rampant (a rules system which lets you build your own unit rules). How about new 3rd edition rules and Chaos Dwarf units? Maybe a rampant asscannon? Maybe new Warhammer Quest scenarios? There's lots that could be done, particularly in systems not graced by our hats and masks before. And nowadays we're not only represented in 28mm and smallscale naval Man o' War/Dreadfleet, but in 15mm and 10mm as well!


By Helblindi, corresponding to T9A Disciples of Lughar: Daemonically possessed berzerkers on fire.


Games Workshop and Chaos Dwarfs Online between them have hammered out a truly distinct evil dwarf archetype for fantasy, one of mass slavery, cruelty, baleful industry, fire worship, Daemonforging, dark sorcery, ostentation, fanatical worship, cult of power, sheer madness and monumental megalomania. We're Blacksmiths of Chaos and Craftsmen of Hell, a dark and stark echo of the Norse saga Dwarves who forged mighty artefacts for whoever could pay for them. This archetype (for I think it is a new archetype of sorts) can be made to resurface in setting after setting. We're not as fringe and fresh as we used to be, but the pull of Chaos Dwarfs which make us return to them again and again have little to do with novelty and everything to do with fantastic imagery.


By t5p1y.


So, yes, army books, rules for various systems, evil dwarf background for various settings and new Word of Hashut issues would be most welcome. There is however one hurdle to getting that professional finish that make someone pop: It's time-consuming (just ask Willmark and Thommy H), and requires knowhow. We have a wealth of material gathered for WoH#13-14, but I cannot ken the complicated editorial programs (they're not fool-proofishly simple, so to speak). Will and material is not lacking, but knowhow is. Darkmeer kindly volunteered to get Word of Hashut rolling, but real life has understandably kept him busy up to his ears.

Word of Hashut aside, Thommy H has kept churning out rules in a polished package. If anyone have the knowhow and tools required to put out a sleek publication with rules and background and other hobby stuff, then please know that this in high demand around these parts. Wink

While full-blown Word of Hashut issues would be most welcome, any polished PDF with little work on warband rules, or roleplaying campaigns, or skirmish scenarios, or new massed fantasy wargame units or whatever one feels like, for whatever system(s) one wishes to grace, will be great to have, and great to spread.


By Forgefire, illustration for this story by Beloss.


I cannot help with anything involving wargame rules (lousy at them) or editorial programs, but I can help with stuff like sculpting tutorials, storywriting and some doodling if anyone has a use for it somewhere.

Looking forward to see what ideas, and projects, this call-out may spawn. Takes Hat off


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And thus there was Chaos. And Squats. Hobby Group Auxillia Work. On Dark Tides. Miscellaneous Commercial Sculpts. Flayman Tutorial.
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There's fourteen ways to skin a dwarf. Chaos Dwarf Warband Rules. Ninth Age concepts.

This post was last modified: 07-21-2018 05:04 AM by Admiral.

07-21-2018 03:00 AM
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Fuggit Khan
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Post: #7
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainFuggit Khan 07-21-2018

Some very good conversation here, and while it's probably undeniable that the death of Warhammer Fantasy contributed greatly to a drop in traffic here, I'm guessing that such is true to all similar sites for elves, green skins, humies, etc. Not just us.
But it's great to hear from many of you guys that AoS, Kings of War, 9th Age,  etc are doing well and picking up more popularity around the world.
Given time I believe there will be a balancing out and an upward trend in traffic. But as others have suggested, we should promote CD's on other sites and pages. Invite people to register and join our Golden Hat and Artisans Contests.  Post "advertising" pics of some great CD models, winning entrants, artwork etc on other sites, with links to CDO to see more. That could draw people in, to see what we offer. As tjub said, this site is an amazing source of stuff, a vault of armies and creativity. So perhaps share some of that knowledge on other sites? Let people see posts that may appeal to them...plenty of the off topic (non CD) discussion and armies could be shared on a vanilla dwarf or elven page for instance (if it applied to that particular audience ). Link it back to CDO, and that will help bring visits here. And some visitors are sure to stay  Happy


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07-21-2018 09:16 PM
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Admiral
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Post: #8
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainAdmiral 07-22-2018

As a first step, perhaps we should pool our knowledge of all the more or less relevant websites and Facebook groups and whatever into one handy link list? Here's one for tutorials on forums, though note that Lead Adventure is only for miniature-related stuff, and Beast Herds and Ogre Strongold are down:


OBS! Use [orl=LINK]NAME[/url] (with a u) without apostrophes ("") for links in posts to have them work on all the below forums!

CDO: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/forumd...php?fid=61

Warseer: http://www.warseer.com/forums/forumdispl...Discussion

Oldhammer: http://forum.oldhammer.org.uk/viewforum.php?f=30

Warhammer Forum: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=4

Chamber of the Everchosen: http://s4.zetaboards.com/cotec/forum/51658/

The Daemonic Legion: http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/in...owforum=13

Druchii: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=9

Ulthuan: http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

Bugman's Brewery: http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/forum/5-the-forge/

The Under Empire: http://underempire.net/

Da Warpath: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_W...howforum=8

Tomb Kings of Khemri: http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showforum=4

Lustria: http://lustriaonline.com/forums/painting...erting.16/

Warhammer Empire: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/ind...board=26.0

Round Table of Bretonnia: http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/inde...at&catid=4

Mordheim Forum: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/f18-tutorials

Carpe Noctem: http://www.vampirecounts.net/forums/dying-to-help.13/

Dogs of War: http://dogsofwaronline.com/forum/forumdi...php?fid=16

One Ring: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=100

DakkaDakka: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/fo...ow/68.page

Bolter and Chainsword: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/forum...tutorials/

SWFBR: http://swfbr.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=8

9th Age: http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?b...iscussion/

Mantic: https://www.mantic.club/forum/hobby/mode...tutorials'

Lead Adventure: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?board=34.0

EEFL: http://eefl.freeforums.net/board/4/eefl-...y-projects


There's also a Reddit for Warhammer stuff, including 40k, though I'm not at home here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/

And Sea of Claws for Man o' War over on Yahoo!: https://groups.io/g/TheSeaofClaws

[spoiler]The funny thing is that posting the work of others and of winning contest entries would just be an extension of my standing spam routine. Whenever I make a tutorial or drawing which could interest other Warhammer players, or whenever some interesting brainstorming for new fantasy factions based on real cultures is brewing over on T9A and I contribute something to it, or whenever a new product of mine or some friend of mine gets released, or whenever I stumble across some interesting find (often history), or whenever CDO hosts a new contest, or whenever some update to the (for now past) Photobucket crisis emerged, I open a linklist and fires away at all - or some - of the below forums, depending on relevance.

If only keeping it to forums where one is likely to get response and discussions going because there are several people known to be interested there, it's usually restricted to Warhammer Empire, Round Table of Bretonnia, Ulthuan.net,  Lustria Online and perhaps Druchii.net, and for good measure also the default would-be hubs of Warseer, T9A and DakkaDakka or thereabouts.

I might never see my work appear in White Dwarf, but since I originally sought out forums as something of a substitute to White Dwarf after its high quality dipped following the Giant issue, I'll use them collectively as a platform to get artwork, concepts and so on out to other hobbyists who might be interested.

When spreading contest news for CDO, I've mostly just posted announcement links, and sometimes a link to the voting thread (usually for art-rounds of AC), because it takes some time so priorities need to be made and corners cut. If one was to spread the work of Chaos Dwarf Onliners more aggressively out there, one would indeed show up with flashy pictures of neat stuff and a link to CDO for more.

Good luck![/spoiler]


News on CDO: Golden Hat XXXIII - Deadline 23rd of September  ...  Etsy shop

And thus there was Chaos. And Squats. Hobby Group Auxillia Work. On Dark Tides. Miscellaneous Commercial Sculpts. Flayman Tutorial.
Chaos Dwarf Writings:
Fables. Songs. Proverbs. Quotes. Monumental Inscriptions. Religious Texts.
There's fourteen ways to skin a dwarf. Chaos Dwarf Warband Rules. Ninth Age concepts.

This post was last modified: 07-22-2018 02:18 AM by Admiral.

07-22-2018 01:20 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #9
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainNicodemus 07-22-2018

Speaking on in decline... it's been several years since I visited some of those forums. Sad to see the state of some of them!   Chamber of the Everchosen even has postings going back months that are just spam that hasn't been cleaned up... ads for Vicodin?  Oh my.

Not that we aren't immune. Several years back I found hidden redirects and buried code for search engines to parse in CDO headers that pointed back to Russian porn sites... but as least we try Wink


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Chaos Dwarf 'Quest Blog (Download the Warhammer Quest: Chaos Dwarfs Roleplay Book )
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07-22-2018 02:10 AM
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Uther the unhinged
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RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainUther the unhinged 07-22-2018

I have no answers. But one of the origins of the problem is semantics. CDO was hit hard by the end of WHFB. Many races were. But they picked up new users from the success of AOS. We do not feature in AOS fluff at all. Those mentions of evil dwarfs tthat do exist don”t mention chaos dwarfs or LOA. Anyone interested in finding out more won’t search for chaos-dwarfs so won’t find us. Similarly new comers to Mantic would not knpw to google chaos-dwarfs ( why would they) so they won’t find us. I don”t know about T9A.
Even if GW  did bring out evil chaos worshipping dwarfs they would not be chaos-dwarfs but chaos duardin or some such. The success of abyssal dwarfs figures plus lots of other figures out there suggests that people are interested they may just not know they are interested in “chaos-dwarfs”. The questipn is how do we get new players to “google chaos-dwarfs” or to find us? I suppose we have to fond out what is out there for abyssal dwarfs and link in. We meed outreach members on AoS forums/ facebook groups.


An AoS creation myth: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...?tid=17414

Uthers’ legions of Hashut: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...?tid=17110
07-22-2018 09:36 AM
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Fuggit Khan
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Post: #11
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainFuggit Khan 07-23-2018

Uther the unhinged Wrote:
one of the origins of the problem is semantics. Anyone interested in finding out more won’t search for chaos-dwarfs so won’t find us. Similarly new comers to Mantic would not know to google chaos-dwarfs ( why would they) so they won’t find us.

You've brought up a very good point that I'd forgotten about. In the old days GW didn't exactly have any serious competition, and "owned" fantasy battles. Not anymore, lots of new game systems out there (many are arguably better than GW offerings), so lots of newcomers don't know "chaos dwarf" necessarily.
There were quite a few times at my old gaming store when younger players asked me why I brought substitute miniatures for a KoW Abyssal Dwarf army to a WFB tournament. They'd never seen or heard of "chaos dwarf". They only knew of Abysmal Dwarfs.
Once I was even reported to a tournament judge, I was accused of fielding a make believe army with a made up modified KoW list! Fortunately one of the three judges knew of Tamurkhan (the other two judges had not, even though they recognized my school 4th edition miniatures).
So yes, semantics is an issue to be sure, especially with younger gamers.
And younger gamers are the future, so it's something to consider in regards to what this site is called or linked to, in order to attract more traffic and new generals who love the evil stunties, no matter what they're called


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07-23-2018 12:28 AM
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Admiral
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Post: #12
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainAdmiral 07-23-2018

I guess it isn't possible to set up some kind of strong search tags for Abyssal Dwarfs, Infernal Dwarves etc. into the software?

Given that the scene has split, and that the last common ground was Warhammer's Chaos Dwarfs, we'd better stick to that name. Going for whatever new name Chaos Dwarfs will receive in Age of Sigmar (we're in the fluff now), or Infernal Dwarves, or Abyssal Dwarfs or just plain flavourless Evil Dwarfs Online would cut out all the competing alternatives from getting frequent hits, favour one particular new system over the others (risk of turning off players who just glance at the name and think it's a e.g. Kings of War forum only), break continuity and rob us of the flavour name and instant recognition that this is the right place for those who already know of Chaos Dwarfs.


Age of Sigmar


My hope is that ongoing activity here will make CDO rise in the search results, not least through Army Blogs. Perhaps it is better achieved in this very section by creating one big Abyssal Dwarfs thread (KoW), one big Infernal Dwarves thread (T9A) and similarly for Chaos Dwarfs in Age of Sigmar, soon perhaps to be rechristened? A smattering of different threads have many advantages (and I don't think we should ever disallow someone from starting a new thread to ask a more specific question without getting lost in the endless stream), but keeping all general news and discussion together might increase Google search yields in the long run, as long as new releases, army lists etc. get continually discussed in the threads.


Kings of War


One way that has been brought up will be to bring out the fruits of Chaos Dwarfs Online to the various interested groups. I am actually about to tell you this in your wonderful epic background story thread, Uther, that could you please spread this to AoS forums/FB groups/whatever is out there, and while doing so also leave a link to CDO somewhere? Same thing goes for any noteworthy creations (tacticas, showcase, fluff, battle reports, conversions, artwork) dealing with evil dwarves for any particular setting: Once someone makes something noteworthy deserving of wider recognition, we should kindly ask him to spread it on to whatever online groups exist for his system with a link to CDO (e.g. one's own army blog) left in it, or better yet just do it ourselves for him, due credit given.

As long as we get our stuff out there, Chaos Dwarfs Online should be able to make it back on the radar.


The Ninth Age


By the way, exactly what forums, FB groups and so on are we talking about? Let's compile them into a handy list to put up somewhere, so that any CDO member out for strengthening our cause, can spread the word even if he's not into this or that particular system:


KoW: Abyssal Dwarfs Forums

T9A: Infernal Dwarfs Forum


Please share all you know of!


News on CDO: Golden Hat XXXIII - Deadline 23rd of September  ...  Etsy shop

And thus there was Chaos. And Squats. Hobby Group Auxillia Work. On Dark Tides. Miscellaneous Commercial Sculpts. Flayman Tutorial.
Chaos Dwarf Writings:
Fables. Songs. Proverbs. Quotes. Monumental Inscriptions. Religious Texts.
There's fourteen ways to skin a dwarf. Chaos Dwarf Warband Rules. Ninth Age concepts.

This post was last modified: 07-23-2018 01:44 AM by Admiral.

07-23-2018 01:25 AM
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tjub
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Post: #13
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great Againtjub 07-23-2018

I usually urge people to post on CDO as well when showing something great on a FB group. Here are the ones I can think of at the moment.

Facebook:
Chaos Dwarfs Online: https://www.facebook.com/groups/21420087772/
Age Of Sig Zharr (age of sigmar chaos dwarfs, Legion Of Azgorh): https://www.facebook.com/groups/AoSDawiZharr/
Abyssal Dwarfs- Kings of War: https://www.facebook.com/groups/248316725625652/
The Oldhammer Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/400319303383363/

Age of Sigmar:
The Grand Alliance Community: http://www.tga.community


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This post was last modified: 07-23-2018 04:00 AM by tjub.

07-23-2018 03:48 AM
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cornixt
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Post: #14
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great Againcornixt 07-25-2018

As long as there are active members, the forum will go on. Despite losing activity due to the loss of the largest ranked combat game and subsequent splintering of the fantasy wargame community, and the fact that younger players simply don't use internet forums any more, there is still activity. I agree that a single thread for each game system will help strengthen the discussion - there isn't enough for a subforum of any game system let alone one for each - that would just create dead subforums (of which we already have a few).

Consolidation is key. The fewer subforums there are the more people will visit them and read threads, leading to more contributions. There are whole subforums that people never visit, but would read the same material if they saw the title in a forum they do visit.

Here are my suggestions for reducing the regular forums (23) into a more sustainable number (14):
"Stories and Background" can be put in "Chaos Dwarf Discussion" and the remaining forums in Army Book Development can be a single forum
"Conversions", "Tutorials" and "Ideas and Advice" should be a single forum
All of the forums in Gaming can be merged to a single forum.

The current layout:

Quote:
Main
   Introductions and CDO Information  
   Chaos Dwarf Discussion  
   Wargame News and Discussion  
   Off-Topic Discussion  
   Sub Forums:  
      Birthday Announcements  
   The Market Place
  
Hobby
   Showcase  
   Sub Forums:  
      Image Gallery,  
      Specialist Games Gallery  
   Army Blogs  
   Conversions  
   Sub Forums:  
      Tutorials  
   Ideas and Advice

   Off-Topic Showcase  
  
Gaming
   Army Lists  
   Tactics and Advice
   Sub Forums:  
      Army Specific Tips (RH),  
      Daemonsmith's Handbook (LoA), and 1 more.  
   Battle Reports & Campaign Discussion
  
  
Army Book Development
   Stories and Background  
   Rules Development
   Project Development


Turns into:

Quote:
Main
   Introductions and CDO Information  
   Chaos Dwarf Discussion  
   Wargame News and Discussion  
   Off-Topic Discussion  
   Sub Forums:  
      Birthday Announcements  
   The Market Place
  
Hobby and Gaming
   Showcase  
   Sub Forums:  
      Image Gallery,  
      Specialist Games Gallery  
   Army Blogs      
   Ideas, Advice, Tutorials
   Off-Topic Showcase  
      
   Gaming Tactics, Army Lists, and Battle Reports  
   House Rules and Concepts


Like a Great Taurus in a Cathay shop.
There's a lot more in the wiki than you think, check out the wiki contents

07-25-2018 02:19 PM
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Fuggit Khan
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Post: #15
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainFuggit Khan 07-26-2018

cornixt Wrote:
Here are my suggestions for reducing the regular forums (23) into a more sustainable number (14):

I think that this is a great idea  Happy


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07-26-2018 01:33 AM
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Zanko
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Post: #16
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainZanko 07-26-2018

I agree with Cornixt that a tightening of the threads is worth a try. Takes Hat off


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07-26-2018 01:36 AM
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Admiral
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Post: #17
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainAdmiral 07-26-2018

Good idea! A consolidation is certainly necessary, but there are some things to be kept in mind. I'll give a slightly different proposal to a consolidation, but first something important that I want to stress:

Stories & Background should not be mixed with Chaos Dwarfs General Discussion, and likewise Tutorials should not be mixed with anything else. Having a dedicated tutorial section is a golden streak for anyone looking for tutorials instead of having to wade through pages upon pages of ideas & advice etc. I've nagged at different other sites to introduce a dedicated tutorial section just like CDO & DakkaDakka & Lead Adventure sports. Losing ours would not be sensible, please believe me. It's too handy. Tutorials are never the most actively posted stuff, but some of the more sought-after silently in my experience. It's to Warseer's & T9A's detriment that they do not (yet) sport a dedicated Tutorial section; it's an important part of keeping a site a hobby hub, as the frenzied BFSP conversions on CDO could testify to.

Likewise, Stories & Background has been active over these years, and mixing it with the big CD general discussion would only make it nigh-impossible to find old background stuff unless we want to keep a Stories & Background index sticky threads around in CD general with links to every single fluff thread.

Remember that forums sport a future partially as libraries, archives and collections of resources; something which Facebook with its gone-with-the-wind flow of news can never match. As such we must keep these resources handily available, and not dilute away some key ones. Some taxonomy barriers should not be crossed. Tutorials can be made its own forum, remain a subforum, or at worst even get compiled into one giant running sticky thread, but it should not be mixed. CDO's forum structure is one of the cleaner ones out there. It can be consolidated, but we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water by going too far.

I must ask you, that whatever else we do, please do not unwittingly destroy these handy separated sections for fluff and hobby tutorials!




What we could instead do, is make Stories & Background into Background Stories & Art so that we get a true fluff/flavour section for anything narrative and aeshtetic, a dedicated one where people can find everything of this sort. It should also not be hidden away at the bottom of the forum, but moved up top. We'd better move the CD art thread currently in CD general, and artists' own art threads, to this location.

Showcase & Army blogs & Conversions could all be consolidated into one single section. Showcase and Army Blogs and indeed even Conversions overlap so much already. We could break out the Image galleries into their own forum, or better yet keep them around as subforums to this new big Hobby Showcase (or whatever we call it). Since Conversions are all about showcasing your converted miniatures, it should be included here, not with Ideas & Advice.

I've found that Ideas & Advice is one of the more interesting and useful sections in the Hobby department. I'd advice we keep it around as its own forum section (since both Tutorials, and Conversions belong elsewhere), but it's not terribly important. Tutorials need be kept its own unadulterated thing, however.

Likewise, I agree with cornixt that Army Lists, Tactics and Advice, Battle Reports & Campaign Discussion, Rules Development and Project Development should be consolidated. But leave Stories & Background outside it, and include art with the fluff.

For the sake of the active Eighth Edition for Life forum, we should better keep the Daemonsmith's Handbook (LoA) subforum around at least initially (perhaps have someone copy everything and send it over to EEFL, then mix this with the Rules/Tactics section proper - same thing with Raveninig Hordes tips, since 6th ed is still played). We could do it in stages, so as to not lose the resouce hub value at the end of the transformation.

All this is less important than keeping Stories & Background, and Tutorials, around as distinct unmixed resources, and I'm really fine with any arrangement we come up with here as long as said separation is kept intact. Happy




So here is a proposal, at 15 forum sections (be welcome to come up with better names). Also, two groupings (Main and Hobby & Gaming) or three? (Main, Hobby, Gaming):

Main
   Introductions and CDO Information  
   Chaos Dwarf Discussion
   Background Stories & Art
   Wargame News and Discussion  
   Off-Topic Discussion  
   Sub Forums:  
      Birthday Announcements  
   The Market Place
  
Hobby
   Showcase, Army Blogs & Conversions  
   Sub Forums:  
      Image Gallery,  
      Specialist Games Gallery    
   Tutorials (Subforum?)
   Ideas & Advice
   Off-Topic Showcase  

Gaming
   Gaming Tactics, Army Lists, and Battle Reports  
   House Rules & Concepts


News on CDO: Golden Hat XXXIII - Deadline 23rd of September  ...  Etsy shop

And thus there was Chaos. And Squats. Hobby Group Auxillia Work. On Dark Tides. Miscellaneous Commercial Sculpts. Flayman Tutorial.
Chaos Dwarf Writings:
Fables. Songs. Proverbs. Quotes. Monumental Inscriptions. Religious Texts.
There's fourteen ways to skin a dwarf. Chaos Dwarf Warband Rules. Ninth Age concepts.

This post was last modified: 07-27-2018 04:33 PM by Admiral.

07-26-2018 03:08 AM
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Zanko
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Post: #18
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainZanko 07-26-2018

Sounds obvious, too. I'm afraid I'm not deep enough in the matter to make adequate proposals. However, I am convinced that the site should be revised. I also think that the "navigation" on the first page should be highlighted much more.


                     Hashut!


         "Frurndar are still existing!"
               The Lizard King 
  
07-26-2018 03:24 AM
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tjub
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Post: #19
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great Againtjub 07-26-2018

Im all for Admirals idea to keep "Background & Stories" and "Tutorials" as their own sections! Its great to have a dedicated place to go for this, even though it might not be a lot of posting there. Happy


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07-26-2018 03:32 AM
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Admiral
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Post: #20
RE: Make Zharr Naggrund Great AgainAdmiral 07-26-2018

Does anyone have ideas for Navigation on the front page?

Also, Strutsagget will salvage the 8th edition LoA subforums for EEFL. Please hold off merging these particular subforums with Tactics & Battle Reports until he is done.

Does there exist some kind of 6th edition forum, Facebook group, Yahoo! group or whatever? We've got Ravening Hordes army specific tips to clear through before the merge, and it would likely serve 6th ed players best if some of themselves could salvage by copy-paste themselves before merging. And save us work.


News on CDO: Golden Hat XXXIII - Deadline 23rd of September  ...  Etsy shop

And thus there was Chaos. And Squats. Hobby Group Auxillia Work. On Dark Tides. Miscellaneous Commercial Sculpts. Flayman Tutorial.
Chaos Dwarf Writings:
Fables. Songs. Proverbs. Quotes. Monumental Inscriptions. Religious Texts.
There's fourteen ways to skin a dwarf. Chaos Dwarf Warband Rules. Ninth Age concepts.

This post was last modified: 07-26-2018 09:37 AM by Admiral.

07-26-2018 09:32 AM
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