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BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODEL
Author MessageBIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODEL
Moloch
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Post: #1
BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELMoloch 06-14-2019

Hi Guys,

I didn't find any post her eon the forum and I've just found few words on the web..

Here is the picture of 2 models of the same big hat centaur body (type 3). As you can see they are different: the left one has a shorter arm and axe, the axe itself has no gems but he's got some gems on the front and the back of the hat. The right one has longer arm and axe, gems on the axe but none on the hat.

They are both featured on official catalogues and pictures...what happened here? did the mould got broken on the arm and they fixed it up this way? if yes, why did they add gems?


Ps: I saw that Chaos Dwarf wiki is missing a close up picture of centaur bodies and legs. If you need them, I've still got most of them unpainted.

Cheers!
Moloch



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06-14-2019 12:31 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #2
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELNicodemus 06-14-2019

Moloch Wrote:
They are both featured on official catalogues and pictures...what happened here? did the mould got broken on the arm and they fixed it up this way? if yes, why did they add gems?



Whaaaaaaaaaaat!!!??!?!? For someone who has been here 7 years and hasn't posted much this is a fantastic find Moloch!  Takes Hat off

I have never noticed this before. I'm going to have to dig through my box of Bull Centaur models tonight and see if I have either of these.  It's very suspicious that it's not just the hat or just the weapon, but both, suggesting it's not an accidental change applied to a mould (i.e. if they had problems with the bumps on the weapon and decided to get rid of them later on... unlikely, but I can't imagine why otherwise).

The wiki certainly needs some updates all over Wink
~N

P.S. Do you have any images of these from catalogues, etc that you can post?


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06-14-2019 01:06 PM
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Moloch
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RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELMoloch 06-14-2019

Eheheh, let's say this is my comeback find Wink
I've been looking for both versions for a long time and today the postman deliver the missing one! so I was finally able to make this post

Here attached the mail order catalogue pages (taken from the web) the yellow margins is from the 1997 catalogue while the other is elder (i don't know exactly).

So..the long axe type is the second version.



Ok, in the following weeks I'll take some pictures and post them for the wiki...Damn, I've painted isome many models n these days  Mad I could have taken a picture before starting...but I did not!!! Mad

Gab/Moloch



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06-14-2019 01:26 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #4
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELNicodemus 06-14-2019

The wiki has the bumps on the weapon, so we could use an entry with the bumps on the hat.... which would make the BC section of the 4th Ed models a nice 2x4 symmetric layout. Wink


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06-14-2019 01:39 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #5
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELNicodemus 06-14-2019

PS that second catalog image is from the 1993 Black catalogue


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06-14-2019 01:44 PM
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cornixt
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RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELcornixt 06-14-2019

The shiny model in the yellow edged page makes it impossible to see the areas where the bumps would be, but here is a different catalogue that shows it in 1998:
http://www.solegends.com/citcat1998/1998P142-00.htm

I've never heard anyone notice this before, good eyes! The big question is why? They clearly reworked the model to move the studs and add a longer arm, and then updated the catalogue image rather than just re-using the old image.


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This post was last modified: 06-14-2019 02:44 PM by cornixt.

06-14-2019 02:42 PM
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RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELAdmiral 06-15-2019

Sharp-eyed catch! Ebay sellers may be in for some very exact questions. Happy

I've been in contact with Alan Perry earlier.  It's too clunky to track back on my phone at the moment, but you can easily get in E-mail contact via Perry Miniatures.

Cheers


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06-15-2019 11:07 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #8
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELNicodemus 06-15-2019

Edit: This post was recovered after a website restore deleted content from ~11pm Jun 14 to 3am Jun 15, 2019. Here's the missing post from Zanthrax, then mine:



This is certainly an odd design choice. I wonder if they just had problem with the model with the rivets on the hat because the axe in that model is closer to the body... Hmm, nah, never mind. They have other models with tight crevasses like that which don't cause enough of a problem with the moulds for them to make modifications. Maybe one was an early version that was mostly used in the studio early-on and the other is a later update?? Sheesh. Who knows. There's a chance Alan Perry might know if he was the one that did the modifications.

So, can you believe - out of 27 4th edition Bull Centaurs (27... 27!!!), I only have one of these guys!?!? I can't believe it. It's probably not a coincidence though, as I don't care for the flaccid hat look Takes Hat off  Anyway, out of 27 (27!!) I have the guy with the rivets on the weapon, not rivets on the hat.

Looking through some of my older material I found these from 1994 and 1995:


In the 1994 White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs supplement they have this catalogue page (upper right) with the Upper torso with axe 3 showing rivets on the hat.  Inside the painted models also show the same version with a clearly highlighted rivet on the hat and no highlighted rivet on the weapon.


In the 1995 White Dwarf issue 186, they show the exact same Chaos Dwarf army in a battle (I guess the studio wasn't shelling out for multiple painted versions!) but at the back in the catalogue section they show the model with the rivets on the weapon and not on the hat, although here it's clear this is a showcase of individual models that you purchase in a blister pack and not individual part numbers that you'd use for ordering.


So I wonder if these two had the same part number or if they had different part numbers for mail order?  In case it's not clear in the image (it's not clear to me) here's what I have from the White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs supplement catalogue entry, which has a suspicious gap:

Quote:
Bull Centaur Bull Body Left Side 1.... 75815/1
Bull Centaur Bull Body Right Side 1... 75815/2
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 1 75815/3
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 2 75815/4
Bull Centaur Bull Body Left Side 2.... 75815/5
Bull Centaur Bull Body Right Side 2... 75815/6
........... no catalogue entry........... 75815/7
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 3 75815/8 (rivets on hat shown)
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 4 75815/9
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 5 75815/10
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 6 75815/11
Bull Centaur Standard Bearer.......... 75816/7


I believe the 8582 catalogue number shown for the Bull Centaur models from the White Dwarf issue above is the code for the blister packs of Bull Centaurs, which contained a single random model.

I looked through the rest of the catalogue. It's clear that 75815/75816 are the Bull Centaur codes.  The White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs supplement catalogue entries are the same as those in the 1993 Black Catalogue entry for Bull Centaurs.   Just to be clear, The Black Catalogue was released in 1994, same year as the Chaos Dwarf Supplement, but listed all the models released in 1993.

The missing 1993/1994 catalogue entry for part "75815/7", right before the suspect torso, seems to be a red herring though.

The Stuff of Legends archive doesn't have an entry for Bull Centaurs in with the Chaos Dwarfs from the "1994 catalogue" (released in 1995 and covering all models available in 1994), but in the 1995/1996 Annual the Bull Centaurs are listed again with part numbers unchanged and using the same stock images. It's not the same scanned page though, it's the real page from the proper issue! The 1997 catalogue has the same part numbers.

Then in the 1998 Annual catalogue the part numbers all changed and we see the updated Upper Torso with Axe 3 with the rivets on the weapon (part number 021100508).    

Quote:
Bull Centaur Bull Body Left Side 1.... 021100501
Bull Centaur Bull Body Right Side 1... 021100502
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 1 021100503
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 2 021100504
Bull Centaur Bull Body Left Side 2.... 021100505
Bull Centaur Bull Body Right Side 2... 021100506
........... no catalogue entry........... 021100507 (WFT??!??)
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 3 021100508 (rivets on weapon shown)
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 4 021100509
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 5 0211005010
Bull Centaur Upper Torso with Axe 6 discontinued?
Bull Centaur Standard Bearer.......... 021100607


You can translate old part numbers to the new ones like this:

Quote:
__75815/8
______508
021100508


It seems like 1998 was the last time models for the Chaos Dwarf army were officially listed in catalogues.

So that BC model seems to have had two versions since close to the beginning as both versions showed up early (White Dwarf Presents and WD issue 186). So very strange!  So I wonder what would have happened when ordering the specific part number, might it just have been random which one you got or is it that maybe the rivets on the hat was an earlier era and the rivets on the weapon came soon after, but the catalogues were just slow to update their stock image??

~N

Edit - I'm reposting this, SO GLAD I SAVED THIS POST!! Webserver issues overnight and we lost all posts and uploads from last evening.


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This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 04:50 AM by Nicodemus.

06-15-2019 11:36 AM
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Abecedar
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Post: #9
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELAbecedar 06-17-2019

A very nice discovery.  I think all of us should be checking our collections


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06-17-2019 03:43 AM
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Moloch
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Post: #10
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELMoloch 06-17-2019

Great analysis Nicodemus!

So, if somebody writes Alan Perry and get an answer, please post it here too Wink



Thank you

Moloch

06-17-2019 03:55 AM
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RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELBABIS 06-18-2019

interesting discovery! all I can say is that I bought a bunch of bull centaurs through the mail order about 15 years ago and I received the longer axe model..


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This post was last modified: 06-18-2019 04:01 AM by BABIS.

06-18-2019 03:58 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #12
RE: BIG HAT CHAOS DWARF 2 TYPES OF THE SAME MODELNicodemus 07-04-2019

I have updated the 4th Edition model range in the wiki with information about this additional "Bull Centaur Axe 3" model:

http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/wiki/index.p...The_Models

Hope you're OK with it Moloch, I've used the images you contributed!  Thanks very much!!
~N


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07-04-2019 11:43 PM
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