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Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.
Author MessageWarhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.
Revlid
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Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Revlid 04-04-2008

Okay, at this point I basically consider my version of the list finished. If I've missed anything or you think there are any glaring imbalances or useless magic items, please let me know.
Most importantly, I want to know if there is anything in the list that you would never even consider using.

You'll find the list at the other end of this link - I'd appreciate any and all feedback.


Madness? THIS IS... Well, maybe it isn't Sparta, but it's still pretty awesome.
Would you kindly comment on my Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs?
04-04-2008 10:21 AM
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Lord Zarkov
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Lord Zarkov 04-04-2008

Bull Centaurs, 4 Wounds?!
Death Rocket is far too Unreliable, prehaps bounce then scatter D6 would be better?
Prehaps allow S-Ls to ride Tauri so they can join BC?
Daeoaz Plate is prehaps too cheap


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04-04-2008 06:20 PM
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Xander
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Xander 04-04-2008

Any chance we will see a PDF form of this?  I should start a section on the main site for User created army lists.


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04-04-2008 06:56 PM
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Revlid
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Revlid 04-05-2008

Xander Wrote:
Any chance we will see a PDF form of this?  I should start a section on the main site for User created army lists.

I'd love to, but I have no idea how to make a PDF file.

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Bull Centaurs, 4 Wounds?!

Well, yeah. In this list they're as big as Dragon Ogres.

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Death Rocket is far too Unreliable, perhaps bounce then scatter D6 would be better?

How is that any more reliable?
Also, why would the Rocket act like a Cannon when 'bouncing'? Why would it hit models it passes over?
It's just a Stonethrower that normally 'scatters' directly forward, but has a 1/3 chance of scattering in another direction. If anything, it's more predictable than a regular Stonethrower.

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Perhaps allow S-Ls to ride Tauri so they can join BC?

Hm. That's a thematic change I will actually put in - it's relatively ineffective as far as I can see, but makes a nice fluffy point, so I will.
Not for regular Sorcerers, though.

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Daeozh Plate is perhaps too cheap

Not when you consider that all the characters who can take it already have Black Plate for free. So it's just a Daemonic Aura and Immune to Flaming Attacks, really.


Madness? THIS IS... Well, maybe it isn't Sparta, but it's still pretty awesome.
Would you kindly comment on my Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs?
04-05-2008 02:28 PM
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Lord Zarkov
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Lord Zarkov 04-05-2008

Revlid Wrote:

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Bull Centaurs, 4 Wounds?!

Well, yeah. In this list they're as big as Dragon Ogres.

Fair enough,

Revlid Wrote:

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Death Rocket is far too Unreliable, perhaps bounce then scatter D6 would be better?

How is that any more reliable?
Also, why would the Rocket act like a Cannon when 'bouncing'? Why would it hit models it passes over?
It's just a Stonethrower that normally 'scatters' directly forward, but has a 1/3 chance of scattering in another direction. If anything, it's more predictable than a regular Stonethrower.

oops, I just meant 'scatter' foward (like you have it doing on a 5+) by bounce, not actually hitting thigs, sorry for the confusion.
The thing is with a Stone thrower is on average it lands where you guessed (1/3 change of a hit then the centre of the loci is the point you guessed, with a roll of a 2 (and soetimes 4) still hitting some of what you want).  In this case in order to get it accurate most of the time you have to guess 6" less (like you'd do with a cannon) and then you'd have a pretty much guarunteed miss on a roll of a 5+.

Revlid Wrote:

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Perhaps allow S-Ls to ride Tauri so they can join BC?

Hm. That's a thematic change I will actually put in - it's relatively ineffective as far as I can see, but makes a nice fluffy point, so I will.
Not for regular Sorcerers, though.

Thanks, glad I could help.

Revlid Wrote:

Lord Zarkov Wrote:
Daeozh Plate is perhaps too cheap

Not when you consider that all the characters who can take it already have Black Plate for free. So it's just a Daemonic Aura and Immune to Flaming Attacks, really.

Fair enough, I'd forgotten that, in which case it's about right then


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04-05-2008 02:48 PM
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Theory_Man
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Theory_Man 04-05-2008

"Implacable – Chaos Dwarf units may march within 8” of enemy units."

For clarity you might say, Enemy units within 8 inches do not prevent Chaos Dwarf Units from marching.

I noticed that you lowered the leadership of Chaos Dwarf Warriors.

"Blunderbusses - The Blunderbuss is a Ranged Weapon. 12" Range, x2 Multiple Shots, Move and Shoot. S3, Armour Piercing. If there is a complete (i.e. of at least 5 models) Blunderbussier rank behind the first, each Blunderbussier in the first rank may fire an extra shot."

Does this mean that when there is a complete rank behind the first that the first rank models fire 3 shots (2 for the multiple shots and 1 for the rank)?

"Fire as a Bolt Thrower from the Warhammer Rulebook with the following exceptions."

Try this instead, The Doomblaster fires in the same way as a Bolt Thrower as described in the rulebook with the following exceptions.

"24" Range. Count no To Hit modifiers except for cover."

It has a range of 24" and does not suffer from any to hit Modifiers except cover. (Even Large targets?)

With the Doomblaster I would simplify the rules for firing it. (The old KIS principle).

Nice work, though. You have the ideas, just clarify them a bit.

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Here is some slaves for your work.


04-05-2008 04:43 PM
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Revlid
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Revlid 04-06-2008

Theory_Man Wrote:
"Implacable – Chaos Dwarf units may march within 8” of enemy units."

For clarity you might say, Enemy units within 8 inches do not prevent Chaos Dwarf Units from marching.


I've replaced it with the wording from the Dwarf book, now I've finally looked it up.

Theory_Man Wrote:
"Blunderbusses - The Blunderbuss is a Ranged Weapon. 12" Range, x2 Multiple Shots, Move and Shoot. S3, Armour Piercing. If there is a complete (i.e. of at least 5 models) Blunderbussier rank behind the first, each Blunderbussier in the first rank may fire an extra shot."

Does this mean that when there is a complete rank behind the first that the first rank models fire 3 shots (2 for the multiple shots and 1 for the rank)?


Precisely. They add +1 Shot, and I've added a sentence to clarify that.

Theory_Man Wrote:
"Fire as a Bolt Thrower from the Warhammer Rulebook with the following exceptions."

Try this instead, The Doomblaster fires in the same way as a Bolt Thrower as described in the rulebook with the following exceptions.

"24" Range. Count no To Hit modifiers except for cover."

It has a range of 24" and does not suffer from any to hit Modifiers except cover. (Even Large targets?)

With the Doomblaster I would simplify the rules for firing it. (The old KISS principle).


I've taken your advice; is this better?:

Firing the Doomblaster - Fire as a Bolt Thrower from the Warhammer Rulebook with the following exceptions:
The Doomblaster has a 24” Range and ignores all To Hit modifiers except for cover. The Doomblaster Misfires on the roll of a 1 To Hit.
If you hit successfully, rather than rolling to wound, add +2 to the successful To Hit roll. For each point by which the roll beats the target’s Toughness, the target unit suffers 1 Wound. If targeting war machines with varied crews or monsters with riders, use the highest Toughness value available. Distribute each wound as for shooting hits. No Armour Saves are allowed against Wounds caused by the Doomblaster.
e.g. A Doomblaster shoots at a unit of Night Goblins. It is within range, and hits the unit on a roll of a 5. The Chaos Dwarf player adds +2 to this roll for a total of 7. This is 4 points better than the Goblins’ Toughness value of 3. The Night Goblins take 4 Wounds, and the Shooting Phase continues.

Thank you very much, both for the excellent cc and the slaves!


Another change I may make:

The Death Rocket, rather than the standard S4/S8, D6 Wounds, instead becomes S5/S10, D3 Wounds. Thoughts?


Madness? THIS IS... Well, maybe it isn't Sparta, but it's still pretty awesome.
Would you kindly comment on my Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs?

This post was last modified: 04-06-2008 08:28 AM by Revlid.

04-06-2008 08:16 AM
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Ishkur Cinderhat
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Ishkur Cinderhat 04-06-2008

Just a quick question: who made these colour artworks that you used in the document? They are breathtaking!

04-06-2008 12:38 PM
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Revlid
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Revlid 04-06-2008

Ishkur Cinderhat Wrote:
Just a quick question: who made these colour artworks that you used in the document? They are breathtaking!


That would be Barbarus, of Projektforum ChaosZwerge fame - he was a member of the original Chaos Dwarf Project that Grimstonefire and I belonged to.


Madness? THIS IS... Well, maybe it isn't Sparta, but it's still pretty awesome.
Would you kindly comment on my Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs?
04-06-2008 02:08 PM
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Hobgoblyn
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Hobgoblyn 04-21-2008

I'll just comment on the Hobgoblin part since it is my specialty:

Probably bump the Initiative of the Hobgoblins up by a point and give them the typical animosity "1/6 turns I have a 5/6 chance of not doing anything and a 1/6 chance of doing something good" drawback that other greenskins have? It seems strange that a race known for speed, dexterity and trickery has lower initiative than humans and yet they are greenskins and so they should have the typical racial trait even if their "good" thing isn't necessarily charging forward blindly.
Also, while it does hurt their value due to its near-uselessness, they SHOULD be required to be equipped with light armor. Yes, it is lame but... if Goblins are required to wear it, Humans are required to wear it and Orcs are required to wear it, then Hobgoblins should be required to wear it.
Hobgoblins, both normal and Gorg riders, should use bows. Goblins use shortbows because of their small size, Hobgoblins are human size and thus use normal bows. This has always been the case and no real reason to change it.
Sneaky Gitz scout but aren't skirmishers? That seems a bit strange and also perhaps problematic.
It isn't clear what sort of benefit scouting would give a Chaos Dwarf army since there really isn't anything you are trying to buy time for (it would make sense in an all Hobgoblin army so that they would buy time for the lightly armored calvary to make its way across the board and to pin down the war machines, but a Chaos Dwarf army relies on heavy armor to protect themselves), a skirmisher unit that can provide 2x as much field cover as normal, moves through rough terrain faster and doesn't get shot up as easy (-1 to hit with ranged weapons) has a clear benefit to what the Chaos Dwarfs are trying to accomplish though. If you do require normal Hobgoblins to wear light armor then with the Sneaky Gitz you could price them up 1 point but note that the unit loses the light armor when becoming a Sneaky Git. However, Sneaky Gitz should not be allowed to use light armor or bows because if they can equip those two items they become something else entirely that, while it makes sense for a Hobgoblin to be able to do, Chaos Dwarfs really shouldn't have the option of skirmishing or scouting archers as a slave choice. They MIGHT be allowed to have a short-ranged range weapon such as throwing daggers or something though.
Also, the "Gorg" riders should follow the typical schema of losing fast calvary if you give them shields. It is true that the DoW Hobgoblins start with full equipment and do not lose the Light Calvary trait, but since those rules were written the rules for Goblin riders changed and, far more importantly, Light Calvary is completely worthless in melee combat.
These rules are actually meant to provide options and prevent abuse. If the Light Calvary can lower their armor to 4+ and they get to use bows with the light calvary ability to easily shift direction then they become too powerful of a ranged unit and in fact there would never be a point in equipping this unit with spears, ever. However, if you make the unit so that they can be 5+ armor Light Calvary archers or they can be 4+ armor melee spearmen then there are two decent roles that the unit can fill on the battlefield.
Also... the "Gorg" ability... well... actually when I went and made my Hobgoblin army I decided to pretty much just make the Hobhounds (which appeared to be giant hyena to me) into basically wolfs that have -1 I and +1S (and were 1 point more expensive than the wolf unit they were based on). In order to fit more with the fluff of there being a creature known as Hobhounds perhaps you could do something similar and it would provide a similar effect as the ability you have the Gorgs (+1S on charge or a +1S that will only hit first on a charge unless against Greenskins tagged onto a low-armored unit is pretty similar in effect in overall gameplay). But then I don't know if Hobhounds should typically be mounts (they weren't typically before) or if they should be reserved aside as companion hunting hounds for Hobgoblin only use.

04-21-2008 12:09 PM
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Ubertechie
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Ubertechie 01-26-2009

As people where asking for it please find attached rules as a PDF
Revlid - hope you don't mind - I saw people asking and i had the tools to help
cheers
ubertechie



Attached File(s)
.pdf File  CD-RevlidRules.pdf (Size: 192.15 KB / Downloads: 26)

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01-26-2009 06:45 PM
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jolpis
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.jolpis 02-27-2009

that's great love the story in the beginning and the cogwheel axe story
the lore is really great to (good thing u used runes im quite sure dwarfs cant use magic)


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02-27-2009 06:29 PM
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Revlid
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Revlid 03-01-2009

Ubertechie Wrote:
As people where asking for it please find attached rules as a PDF
Revlid - hope you don't mind - I saw people asking and i had the tools to help
cheers
ubertechie


Never apologize for helping out Ubertechie - thanks a bunch! I have my own pdf of this, but it's ridiculously huge in terms of memory, thanks to my sticking in more artwork and even more background stuff.


Madness? THIS IS... Well, maybe it isn't Sparta, but it's still pretty awesome.
Would you kindly comment on my Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs?
03-01-2009 08:17 AM
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51la5
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.51la5 04-07-2009

Looks good I rely like it.


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04-07-2009 12:34 AM
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Zaramuskharaz
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RE: Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs. Final Version.Zaramuskharaz 05-03-2009

Huuum... liked it!

For the Dark Lands Chariot, I would add something like a grinder or millstone on the front. Absolutely LOVED the sideart!! Takes Hat off Would use as avatar for myself, if I get the rights! They are yours?

Interesting use of hobbos mercs...

Over all, liked it. Would use if the oponent allows!


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05-03-2009 10:35 PM
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