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My Revised List (0.8)
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kk2k2
Hobgoblin
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Post: #1
My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 11-23-2008

General Overview:
Chaos Dwarfs are the master of 'Led by'. Thus, most Hobgoblin units can take Chaos Dwarf Slavemaster Champions, and the Hobgoblin Gunners can take an Ogre Mercenary. The Lesser Taurus got thrown in for sheer amusement factor.
The Stoneguard/Acolytes rule is... strong, but it IS a special choice, and the Acolyte is fairly fragile.
Note: I stole 'why not give them all Chaos Armour?', and in fact took that as the starting point.

Core:
Hobgoblin Warriors
Hobgoblin Archers
Hobgoblin Wolfriders
Chaos Dwarf Warriors
Chaos Dwarf Blunderbussiers

Special:
Stoneguard
Bull Centaurs
Hobgoblin Gunners
Sneaky Gits
Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers (2-for-1)
Death Rocket Battery (1-3)

Rare:
Earthshaker Cannon
Hellcannon
Bull Centaur Blunderbussiers

  Core
Hobgoblin Warriors (4 points) 10+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  3  3 3 3 1 2 1  6   Hobgoblin Warrior
3  4  3 3 4 1 2 2  9   Slavemaster

Equipment: Light Armour, Shields, Hand Weapons (Chaos Armour for the Slavemaster)
Special Rules: Abject Cowards
Options:
Can upgrade one model to a Slavemaster for 15 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 10 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 5 points


Hobgoblin Archers (6 points) 10+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  3    3   3 3 1 2 1  6 Hobgoblin Archer
3  4    3   3 4 1 2 2  9 Slavemaster

Equipment: Bows, Hand Weapons (Chaos Armour for the Slavemaster)
Special Rules: Abject Cowards
Options:
Can upgrade one model to a Slavemaster for 15 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 10 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 5 points


Standard Hobgoblin Warriors. Slavemaster instead of Champion makes them into Chaos Dwarf Warriors lite, Abject Cowards replaces the annoyance of Animosity (Hobgoblins are NOT O&G) with a Leadership based check.

Hobgoblin Wolfriders (12 points) 5+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  3  3 3 3 1 2 1  6 Hobgoblin Wolfrider
8  4  3 4 4 1 2 2  9 Bull Centaur Slavemaster
9  3  0 3 3 1 3 1  5 Giant Wolf

Equipment: Light Armour, Wolves, Hand Weapon (Chaos Armour for the Slavemaster)
Special Rules: Fast Cavalry, Abject Cowards
Centauroid
Options:
Can upgrade one model to a Bull Centaur Slavemaster for 22 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 12 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 6 points
May take Bows for +3 points per model.
May take Shields for +1 point per model, but if they do, they lose Fast Cavalry

The Slavemaster upgrade just makes sense to me... and who else can keep up?


Chaos Dwarf Warriors 1+ (11 points) 10+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3  4  3 3 4 1 2 1  9 Chaos Dwarf Warrior
3  5  3 4 4 1 2 2  9 Chaos Dwarf Axemaster

Equipment: Chaos Armour, Great Weapon, Hand Weapon
Special Rules: Short Legs
Options:
Can upgrade one model to an Axemaster for 15 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 10 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 5 points
Can take a Magic Banner worth up to 25 points

The real Chaos Dwarfs. Great Weapons and armour, NO OPTIONS! - the exceptionally elite Champions are instead of including a unit of similiar troops. Mandatory, but no longer mandatory in multiples? Or do Chaos Dwarf LED units seem fine to everyone?

Chaos Dwarf Blunderbussiers (12 points) 10+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3  4  3 3 4 1 2 1  9 Chaos Dwarf Blunderbussier
3  4  3 3 4 1 2 1  9 Chaos Dwarf Engineer

Equipment: Chaos Armour, Blunderbuss, Hand Weapon
Special Rules: Abundance of Gunpowder, Short Legs
Options:
Can upgrade on model to an Engineer for 18 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 12 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 6 points

My upgrades may go a little too far; check the rules.


   Special

Stoneguard (13 points) 10+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3  5  3 4 4 1 1 1  9 Stoneguard
3  4  3 3 4 1 1 1  9 Acolyte
3  5 3 4 4 1 1 2  9

Equipment: Chaos Armour, Shields (Stoneguard Only), Hand Weapons
Special Rules: Acolyte, Elite Bodyguard
Options:
Can upgrade one model to an Acolyte for 55 points
Can upgrade up to two models to Bodyguard for 15 points each
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 15 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 10 points
Can take a Magic Banner worth up to 50 points

Yes, the Champion has a wimpy profile... ...and a magic level.

Bull Centaurs (30 points) 5+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
8  4  3 4 4 1 2 2  9 Bull Centaur
8  4  3 6 5 3 2 3  6 Lesser Taurus

Equipment: Chaos Armour, Great Weapons, Shields (Bull Centaurs Only)
Special Rules: Centauroid
Scaly Skin (4+), Unit Strength 4 (Lesser Taurus Only)
Options:
Can upgrade one model to a Lesser Taurus for 50 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 20 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 10 points
May exchange their Great Weapons for Additional Hand Weapons.

Lesser Taurus doesn't feel very lesser, but given it's on a 50x50 base... really, I just need to up the stats on the Great Taurus. Point cost is probably at least a bit too low, although it DOES have no more attacks along it's frontage than two BC's would. Suggestions?

Hobgoblin Gunners (7 points) 10+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  3  3 3 3 1 2 1  6 Hobgoblin Gunner
6  3  3 4 4 3 2 4  8 Ogre Mercenary

Equipment: Brace of Pistols
Special Rules: Abject Cowards
Fear, Unit Strength 3
Options:
Can upgrade one model to an Ogre Slavemaster for 45 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 10 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 5 points

Because of the Leadbelcher flavour... and just 'cause

Sneaky Gits (15 points) 5+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  4  3 3 3 1 2 1  6   Sneaky Git
4  4  3 3 3 1 2 2  6   Complete Git

Equipment: Additional Hand Weapons)
Special Rules: Abject Cowards, Turncoats, Easily Ignored
Options:
Can upgrade one model to a Slavemaster for 15 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 10 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 5 points

Because Sneaky Gits are Gittastic


Death Rocket Battery (1-3 for 50 points each)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3  4  3 3 4 1 2 1  9 Chaos Dwarf Warrior (2 per Death Rocket)
-  -  - - 7 3 - - -- Death Rocket

Equipment: Chaos Armour, Hand Weapons
Special Rules: Battery of Rocket Fire

Rules in progress. They're going to be massed fire though. I want a proper Rocket Battery!


Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower (1-2 for 35 points each)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  3  3 3 3 1 2 1  6 Hobgoblin Crewman
-  -  - - 7 3 - - -- Bolt Thrower

Equipment: Hand Weapons

  Rare

Hellcannon

Earthshaker Cannon

Bull Centaur Blunderbussiers (34 points) 5+

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
8  5  3 4 4 1 2 2  9 Bull Centaur
8  5  3 4 4 1 2 2  9 Engineer

Equipment: Chaos Armour, Brace of Blunderbusses
Special Rules: Centauroid, Fast Cavalry, Abundance of Gunpowder
Options:
Can Upgrade one movel to a Bull Centaur Engineer for 30 points
Can upgrade one model to a Standard Bearer for 20 points
Can upgrade one model to a Musician for 10 points

...because with the normal ones at Special, well. Note Brace of Blunderbusses is "just" a S4 Armour Piercing Additional Hand Weapon


Chaos Dwarf Lord (120 points)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3  7  3 4 5 3 4 4  10 Chaos Dwarf Hero

Wears Chaos Armour
Short Legs
May take a Great Weapon for +6 points, an Additional Hand Weapon for +6 points, or a Brace of Blunderbusses for +24 points.
May take a Shield for +3 points
May take up to 100 points of Magic Items from the Common and/or Chaos Dwarf Magic Items

Great Taurus (200 points)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6  5  0 6 5 4 3 4  6 Great Taurus

Fly, Large Target, Terror, Flaming Breath Weapon (Strength 3), Immunity to Flaming Attacks, Scaly Skin (4+)

Chaos Dwarf Sorceror Lord (190 points)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
1  4  3 3 5 3 1 2  10 Chaos Dwarf Sorceror Lord

Short Legs, Level Three Wizard
May be upgraded to a Level Four Wizard for 35 points
May ride on Stoneguard Litter Bearers or a Lammasu
May take up to 100 points of Magic Items from the Common and/or Chaos Dwarf Magic Items

Code:
Stoneguard Litter Bearers  (75 points)
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 5  -  4 - - 1 2 -
A Litter adds +1 Wound to the Character riding it. A Character riding a Litter becomes Unit Strength 4, and gains a 4+ armour save


Lammasu (150 points)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6  5  0 4 5 4 3 2  8 Lammasu

Fly, Large Target, Terror, Magic Resistance (2)


Bull Centaur Lord (180 points)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
8  6  3 5 5 3 4 5  9 Bull Centaur Lord

Wears Chaos Armour
Centauroid
May take a Great Weapon for +6 points, an Additional Hand Weapon for +6 points, or a Brace of Blunderbusses for +24 points.
May take a Shield for +3 points
May take up to 100 points of Magic Items from the Common and/or Chaos Dwarf Magic Items

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3  6  3 4 5 2 3 3  9 Chaos Dwarf Hero

Wears Chaos Armour
Short Legs
May take a Great Weapon for +4 points, an Additional Hand Weapon for +4 points, or a Brace of Blunderbusses for +20 points.
May take a Shield for +2 points
May take up to 50 points of Magic Items from the Common and/or Chaos Dwarf Magic Items


Chaos Dwarf Sorceror (65 points)

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2  4  3 3 5 2 1 1  9 Chaos Dwarf Sorceror

Short Legs, Level One Wizard
May be upgraded to a Level Two Wizard for +35 points
May take up to 50 points of Magic Items from the Common and/or Chaos Dwarf Magic Items
May ride Hobgoblin Litter Bearers

Code:
Hobgoblin Litter Bearers  (50 points)
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3  -  3 - - 3 2 -
A Litter adds +1 Wound to the Character riding it. A Character riding a Litter becomes Unit Strength 4, and gains a 5+ armour save


Bull Centaur Hero

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
8  5  3 4 5 2 3 4  9 Bull Centaur Hero

Wears Chaos Armour
Centauroid
May take a Great Weapon for +4 points, an Additional Hand Weapon for +4 points, or a Brace of Blunderbusses for +20 points.
May take a Shield for +2 points
May take up to 50 points of Magic Items from the Common and/or Chaos Dwarf Magic Items


Hobgoblin Not-So-Much-of-a-Coward (40 points)
[code]M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  5  4 4 4 2 3 3  7 Bull Centaur Hero
Any unit joined by a Hobgoblin Not-So-Much-of-a-Coward loses the Abject Cowards rule for the entire game, but must make a panic test if he leaves the unit or dies.

Battle Standard Bearer: One Bull Centaur Hero or Chaos Dwarf Hero may be upgraded to a Battle Standard Bearer for +25 points. He can have a magic banner (no points limit), but if he does so he may take no other magic items. He cannot also be the General.



Bestiary:

Chaos Armour: 4+ Armour Save

Abject Cowards: The first time any unit of Hobgoblin Warriors, Hobgoblin Archers, Hobgoblin Gunners or Hobgoblin Wolfriders charges or is charged by an enemy, they must make a Terror test if they have not already made a Terror test this game (if they have an Ogre Mercenary or other Fear causing model in the unit, instead, they take a fear test).
In addition, they may only use the General's Leadership if he is in the unit.
Units with the Abject Cowards special rule only cause Panic in other units with the Abject Cowards special rule.

Blunderbusses:
A lone model or unit armed with Blunderbusses may fire it in the shooting phase using the rules for a Strength 3 Breath Weapon.

Ranked Blunderbusses:
A ranked unit armed with Blunderbusses may, in the shooting phase, instead of firing them as a Breath Weapon, fire them directly ahead. If they do, all models (including friendly models) directly in front of the unit and within 12" of the unit suffer a Strength 3 hit on a 4+. If a unit of Blunderbusses has a second rank at least five models wide, these hits are instead Strength 4. If a unit of Blunderbusses has a second and third rank at least five models wide, these hits are instead strength 5. Characters not armed with Blunderbusses will be shouldered aside as the unit fires; resolve the hits as though they were not in the unit. Look Out Sire applies normally.

The Whites of their Eyes:
A ranked unit of Blunderbusses may stand and shoot with them, using the rules for Ranked Blunderbuss fire, or may instead opt to 'Fire when you see the Whites of their Eyes'. If they 'Fire when you see the Whites of their Eyes', then for each model in the front rank of the charging enemy unit, on a 4+ that model suffers a strength 3 to 5 hit (the strength is determined by the Ranked Blunderbuss firing rules). Look Out Sir applies normally.

Brace of Blunderbusses: In close combat, models armed with a Brace of Blunderbusses may opt to use them as Strength 4 Armour Piercing hand to hand weapons (either as a single hand weapon or as a pair of hand weapons). Regardless of the Strength of the wielder, they are Strength 4 in close combat.

Battery of Rocket Fire: Each Death Rocket Battery forms a single unit. Death Rockets fire as stone-throwers, but may only guess up to 48", and each hit is only strength 3 (strength 6 under the hole), doing d3 wounds. All Death Rockets in the Battery must fire at the same target and guess the same distance (treat them as skirmishers for determining line of sight). If there are three Death Rockets in the Battery, and they all fire in a given Shooting phase, you may reroll one Scatter die between the three of them.

Abundance of Gunpowder: When an Engineer is killed in a Challenge, it explodes, doing 1d6 S6 hits to the other participant and to each unit in that combat. Additionally, all wounds inflicted by Blunderbuss fire by the Engineer's unit do d3 wounds.

Acolyte: An Acolyte is a level one Wizard, as well as a unit Champion for a unit of Stoneguard.

Turncoats:
Sneaky Gits often join up with enemy armies before the battle, and then suddenly turn on them as battle is joined. To represent this, after scouts are deployed, you may deploy a unit of Sneaky Gits in the enemy deployment zone, at least 1" away from all enemy models, or in your own deployment zone. You may not deploy the Sneaky Gits in the enemy deployment zone such that they have line of sight to an enemy model.

Easily Ignored:
Enemies may march when within 8" of a unit of Sneaky Gits, unless they cannot march for a reason other than the proximity of the Sneaky Gits.

Litters: as Chaos Dwarf Sorcerors begin to turn to stone, they often take to being carried about on the shoulders of Hobgoblin Slaves (in the case of Sorcerors) or Stoneguard (in the case of Sorceror Lords). This changes the unit strength of the Sorceror, and requires them to be mounted on a 40mm by 40mm base. The Litter Bearers may attack, but cannot be attacked; all attacks must be directed at the Sorceror.

    Magic Items

Armour
Armour of the Furnace (50 points)
The wearer has a 3+ armour save, a 5+ Ward Save, and immunity to Flaming Attacks.

Coat of Arms (50 points)
Chaos Armour. When using a Shield in close combat, the wearer get an additional +2 to their armour save. When using a Great Weapon in close combat, they get +1 Attack.

Daemonbound Armour (30 points) (Chaos Dwarfs Only)
Chaos Armour. Confers +1 S and +3 Movement to the wearer.
Can be taken by Chaos Dwarf Sorcerors.

Armour of Gazrakh (25 points)
The wearer has a 2+ armour save (which may be modified furthur normally, by shields. etc).

Battle Harness (15 points) (Bull Centaurs Only)
Chaos Armour. The Wearer does one S5 impact hit on the turn that they charge.


Weapons
The Hellblade (100 points)
The Wielder has Weapon Skill 10 and Strength 10

Chaos Runesword (50 points)
The wielder gains +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Strength and +1 Attack

The Grim Axe (50 points)
Great Weapon. Always Strikes First.

Black Hammer of Hashut (45 points)
The Wielder gain +2 Strength. Regeneration saves may not be made against the Black Hammer of Hashut. If the Black Hammer of Hashut inflicts an unsaved wound on a flammable target, they die.

Bloodaxe (45 points)
Great Weapon. The wielder gets +1 on to-hit rolls.

Daemonic Hand Cannons (40 points)
Brace of Blunderbusses. All attacks made by the Daemonic Hand Cannons (including any Blunderbuss Volley it is fired in) are Flaming and are made at +1 Strength

Impudent Axe (20 points)
Hand Weapon. Models able to attack the wielder in close combat must attack the wielder. Challenges issued by the wielder cannot be declined.

Spiked Shield (10 points)
Hand Weapon. The wielder gets +1 to their Armour Saves


Enchanted Items
Black Gem of Gnar (35 points)
One Use Only.
Use in a Challenge, before blows are struck. No model may a in the challenge may attack this turn.

Chronicle of the Chaos Dwarfs (25 points)
The bearer Hates all enemies.

Crown of Command (25 points) (Chaos Dwarf Lord Only)
Once per game, you may reroll any one failed Leadership test, Psychology test, or Break Test.

Gauntlets of Bazrakh the Cruel (25 points)
The wielder gets +1 Weapon Skill and +1 Strength. If they roll a '1' on a roll to hit an enemy they hit a friendly movel in base contact instead. Wounds inflicted in this way do not count towards combat resolution.


Talismans
The First Chaos Rune (85 points)
The bearer gains a 3+ ward save

Cursed Pendant of Luck (50 points)
Any successful to wound roll against the bearer must be re-rolled.

Taurus Torus (30 points)
Bound Spell Power Level 3
The bearer gains a Strength 3 Armour Piercing Breath Weapon this turn.

Restorative Rune (25 points)
At the start of your turn, if the bearer is wounded, they regain a wound.


Arcane Items
Obsidian Amulet (75 points)
During your magic phase, you may remove one die from your opponent's dispel pool and add it to your power dice.

Spellstorer (50 points)
Dispel Scroll. The Sorceror may, for the rest of the game, cast the dispelled spell as though they had rolled it as one of their spells.


Magic Banners
Banner of the Furnace (75 points)
The unit gains a 5+ Ward Save

Banner of Agony  (50 points)
This fell banner is infused with the spite of a vengeful daemon, It reaches out for the souls of the foe drawing them closer and relieving them of their will.
Enemies which break in combat from a Unit carrying this banner roll 1 less die to determine their flee distance.

Standard of Shielding (Chaos Dwarf Warriors only) (25 points)
+1 to Armour Saves

Banner of Slavery (25 points)
Units with the Abject Cowards special rule may use this unit's leadership if they are within 12" of this unit.

Sigil of Hashut (25 points)
Flaming Attacks, Immunity to Flaming Attacks.

This post was last modified: 12-07-2008 11:32 PM by kk2k2.

11-23-2008 09:02 AM
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Grimstonefire
The Magician Technician
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Post: #2
RE: My Revised List (0.8)Grimstonefire 11-23-2008

I've edited one of the profiles to put it in [code] brackets. If you edit your post you can see what I did.

I think you should also edit and list it as
Equipment:
Special Rules:
Options:


The exploding blunderbusser is just too cool!  Would it affect the other CD in the unit?

Stoneguard needs a weapon Wink  Possibly a halberd?

I think you should put the titles of the units in bold so it's easier to see.  Also a list at the top of the post with just the names of things:

CORE
Hobgoblin Warriors
Hobgoblin Archers
Hobgoblin Wolfriders
Hobgoblin Wolfrider
Chaos Dwarf Warriors
Chaos Dwarf Blunderbussiers

SPECIAL
Stoneguard
Bull Centaurs
Hobgoblin Gunners
Death Rocket Battery
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower

RARE
Hellcannon
Earthshaker Cannon
Bull Centaur Blunderbussiers

In terms of the numbers of choices that is a good list.  There’s a lot more hobgoblins than I would use, and some of the things need a lot of work.

But overall it’s certainly very different to any fan list I’ve seen before.


Ever the best of friends Mum. 1953-2011   Sad

This post was last modified: 11-23-2008 09:34 AM by Grimstonefire.

11-23-2008 09:21 AM
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kk2k2
Hobgoblin
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Post: #3
RE: My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 11-23-2008

I've edited...

Stoneguard use Hand Weapon and Shield. They're an extremely defensive unit, essentially being Dwarf Ironbreakers, tasked with protecting Chaos Dwarf Sorcerors. Their job is to not die. Happy

I haven't added many units, or even models, to the line. (Stoneguard are just CDW with HW and Shield, although the Hobgoblin Gunners and Bull Centaur Blunderbussiers are new).

The large quantities of Hobgoblin units simply reflect the number of options they have now; indeed, I _removed_ the option to field naked Hobgoblins, or Hobgoblin Archers-with-Light-Armour-and-Shields. I'd like to think Chaos Dwarf Warriors and Blunderbussiers with Chaos Armour instead of Heavy Armour are sufficiently interesting to be worth fielding in and of themselves... and if not, there IS always the Stoneguard, who I'm particularly proud of. (A couple of units of Stoneguard can go a long way to making a Scroll Caddy into a solid magic defense AND have a little bit of magic offense)

What, precisely, needs a lot of work? The list is definately rough (point costs are largely arbitrary, and I haven't done much for characters and magic items), but I'm obviously fairly proud of my own ideas and need someone to point out where they're lacking. Wink

Oh... and if 6 units of core is good, well, I need another option. I shall have to ponder on that.

11-23-2008 05:41 PM
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kk2k2
Hobgoblin
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Post: #4
RE: My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 11-25-2008

I've added magic items, although Arcane Items is a bit slim (I really wanted four or five entries.

Assume few major changes to the characters, although the Sorcerors are going to be M2 (Hero) or M1 (Lord), just out of flavour. (The armour of extra Movement can compensate for that, and I think I'm going to include a Palaquin style 'mount').

11-25-2008 10:36 PM
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kk2k2
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Post: #5
RE: My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 12-05-2008

I've added Sneaky Gits back in. Scouts? BAH! Sneaky Gits are TRAITORS! Happy

12-05-2008 07:59 AM
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Servius
Bull Centaur
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Post: #6
RE: My Revised List (0.8)Servius 12-05-2008

On your crown.. It should be Psychology Test.. Im assuming you designed it to be used for break, panic, fear, terror and the like correct?? Saying Leadership tests Would only apply to leadership tests.. and not the above mentioned.. Even though they use the same stat they are not essentially the same test..

And am I reading it correctly of does a Unit of lets say 20 Blunderbusses with Engineer and a Hero with the Daemonic Hand Cannons make their shots strength 7! Thats outlandishly good.. but considering current books. not out of line.

On the Gits... I think that your scouting rule is a bit overboard with what you need here.. You could simply use something similar to the chameleon Skink Rule, this wouldnt be out of line and is very similar in idea and just throw the march rule in with it.  "May place anywhere outside 1" of Enemies if in terrain or out of line of sight, or 12" away if in enemy Line of sight. Sneaky Gitz may never block enemies from Marching."

On the Mages.. Give them the Option of Litters. they are very common in Assyrian and Babylonian Culture, basically prominant people (mostly royalty) would have basically a covered couch or bed carried by attendants. Make it something like the Dwarf High Kings Throne. say 75 points for the Lord and 50 for the hero.. The Litter wouldnt add save but would bring the movement back up to 3 in both cases.. The hero Litter would be carried by Hobgoblin Slaves. Adding 2 Hobgoblin attacks (basically just make 1 stat for the litter based on the hobbo) The Lord Litter would be carried by your Stoneguard and you do basically the same. In both cases make them add a wound to the character. This is to make up for the fact that you only attack the mage and not the litter as it is more like a cavalry mount than a monster. I would also make it Unit Strength 4.
Here you go..

Code:
Hero Litter - 50 Pts
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 3  -  3 - - 3 2 -
A Litter adds +1 Wound to the Character riding it. A Character riding a Litter becomes Unit Strength 4

Lord Litter - 75 Pts
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 5  -  4 - - 1 2 -
A Litter adds +1 Wound to the Character riding it. A Character riding a Litter becomes Unit Strength 4


On your Stoneguard.. The Rule for making them basically all champions is ok.. but a bit much.. I would say make it were they can all accept challenges. but remove the fact they can all issue them. This makes them a little over powered. as it would make it impossible to get a character to attack the unit at the point.

On weapons.. If you give anyone Halberd it should be base dwarfs. and give the Great Weapons to the Stone Guard.
I will say removing the option of Hand Weapon /shield from Base dwarfs is not the best of ideas.. It makes the army feel static. Also that champion is cheap.. 15 points would be a minimum and 10 points for the standard is what it should be for all core units.. and make them take only a 25 point banner.. Leave the 50 point banner for the Stone guard and maybe the Bull Centaurs.

Heres a cool 50 Point banner.. May be a little much so ill add 2 rulesets and you pick..

Banner of Agony: 50 Points
This fell banner is infused with the spite of a vengeful daemon, It reaches out for the souls of the foe drawing them closer and relieving them of their will.
Enemies which break in combat from a Unit carrying this banner roll only 1 d6 to determine their flee distance.
Or
Enemies which break in combat from a Unit carrying this banner roll 1 less dice to determine their flee distance.

On your Rocket Battery... I have a rule for mine (mine is more of an alternate fireing mode than its regular but i think is what your thinking.)
0-48" Range. Guess Range. Once target is marked roll a Scatter and Artillery dice. and allocate the small template as per a stone thrower. If a Misfire is rolled use the cannon misfire chart. If a Hit is also rolled scatter the template 4D6 in the direction of the arrow on the hit dice. Once the final position of the template is established allocate the rest of the battery. (you could do this for however many rockets fire in your battery.. Mine is alternate fire on a single machine.. and you can shoot up to 3 additional rockets but you much choose the number before guessing. and you loose the battery for that many turns unless you misfire inwhich case you use the chart.) roll a scatter dice for the second rocket. If a Hit is rolled replace the small template with the large template and allocate hits as normal. if a scatter is rolled, roll 1D6 and scatter another small template from the center of the first rockets landing in the direction rolled. This can be shortened.. I tend to be longwinded. on yours if you rolled the final 2 machines in the battery as hits you could use a very large template or make it do the earthshaker effect in addition to the large template.
I also think that even if you keep the rules the same you are WAY off on your points.. 50pts for a Stone Thrower is a steal.. and if your thinking about keeping most of the same rules and adding a massed firing for more damage... 50 is not a good idea. I think that 80 points per machine would be ok..

I think the Battle Harness would be better off with D3 Strength 4 as a single strength 5 have not many uses.
the Chronicle of the CD.. I think it should give bearer and unit joined hatred against all enemies and Always have hatred against Dwarfs.

You also forgot Minimum and Maximum unit sizes.. These are key.



This post was last modified: 12-05-2008 09:45 AM by Servius.

12-05-2008 08:35 AM
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kk2k2
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Post: #7
RE: My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 12-06-2008

Servius Wrote:
On your crown.. It should be Psychology Test.. Im assuming you designed it to be used for break, panic, fear, terror and the like correct?? Saying Leadership tests Would only apply to leadership tests.. and not the above mentioned.. Even though they use the same stat they are not essentially the same test..


Yes, any one test.

Quote:
And am I reading it correctly of does a Unit of lets say 20 Blunderbusses with Engineer and a Hero with the Daemonic Hand Cannons make their shots strength 7! Thats outlandishly good.. but considering current books. not out of line.


Er... not what I meant, but honestly, it's cooler that way. The intent was to make a unit with ranks like so: 5/5/1 to be able to fire at S5. (S6 with Handcannons)

Quote:
On the Gits... I think that your scouting rule is a bit overboard with what you need here.. You could simply use something similar to the chameleon Skink Rule, this wouldnt be out of line and is very similar in idea and just throw the march rule in with it.  "May place anywhere outside 1" of Enemies if in terrain or out of line of sight, or 12" away if in enemy Line of sight. Sneaky Gitz may never block enemies from Marching."


That would work, but the intent wasn't 'scouts', the intent was 'traitors'. They're traitors. Unsure

Quote:
On the Mages.. Give them the Option of Litters. they are very common in Assyrian and Babylonian Culture, basically prominant people (mostly royalty) would have basically a covered couch or bed carried by attendants. Make it something like the Dwarf High Kings Throne. say 75 points for the Lord and 50 for the hero.. The Litter wouldnt add save but would bring the movement back up to 3 in both cases.. The hero Litter would be carried by Hobgoblin Slaves. Adding 2 Hobgoblin attacks (basically just make 1 stat for the litter based on the hobbo) The Lord Litter would be carried by your Stoneguard and you do basically the same. In both cases make them add a wound to the character. This is to make up for the fact that you only attack the mage and not the litter as it is more like a cavalry mount than a monster. I would also make it Unit Strength 4.
Here you go..

Code:
Hero Litter - 50 Pts
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 3  -  3 - - 3 2 -
A Litter adds +1 Wound to the Character riding it. A Character riding a Litter becomes Unit Strength 4

Lord Litter - 75 Pts
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 5  -  4 - - 1 2 -
A Litter adds +1 Wound to the Character riding it. A Character riding a Litter becomes Unit Strength 4


That's an elegant execution. The Hobgoblin litter should logically be M4, though.

Quote:
On your Stoneguard.. The Rule for making them basically all champions is ok.. but a bit much.. I would say make it were they can all accept challenges. but remove the fact they can all issue them. This makes them a little over powered. as it would make it impossible to get a character to attack the unit at the point.


Yeah, I think I have a superior execution for that one.

Quote:
On weapons.. If you give anyone Halberd it should be base dwarfs. and give the Great Weapons to the Stone Guard.
I will say removing the option of Hand Weapon /shield from Base dwarfs is not the best of ideas.. It makes the army feel static. Also that champion is cheap.. 15 points would be a minimum and 10 points for the standard is what it should be for all core units.. and make them take only a 25 point banner.. Leave the 50 point banner for the Stone guard and maybe the Bull Centaurs.


Strength 3 infantry with a 2+ armour save feels wrong to me, and I'm attached to the Chaos Armour. With Standard of Shielding they're just as tough as HW/Sh/Heavy Armour would be anyway, but with Great Weapons, and even without, WS4 4+ armour save S5 attacks back is fine.

The issue with the banners is I didn't want Standard of Shielding on the Stoneguard... there's a better way to do that.

Quote:
Heres a cool 50 Point banner.. May be a little much so ill add 2 rulesets and you pick..

Banner of Agony: 50 Points
This fell banner is infused with the spite of a vengeful daemon, It reaches out for the souls of the foe drawing them closer and relieving them of their will.
Enemies which break in combat from a Unit carrying this banner roll only 1 d6 to determine their flee distance.
Or
Enemies which break in combat from a Unit carrying this banner roll 1 less dice to determine their flee distance.


Sold! I'll use the less awesome version.

Quote:
On your Rocket Battery... I have a rule for mine (mine is more of an alternate fireing mode than its regular but i think is what your thinking.)
0-48" Range. Guess Range. Once target is marked roll a Scatter and Artillery dice. and allocate the small template as per a stone thrower. If a Misfire is rolled use the cannon misfire chart. If a Hit is also rolled scatter the template 4D6 in the direction of the arrow on the hit dice. Once the final position of the template is established allocate the rest of the battery. (you could do this for however many rockets fire in your battery.. Mine is alternate fire on a single machine.. and you can shoot up to 3 additional rockets but you much choose the number before guessing. and you loose the battery for that many turns unless you misfire inwhich case you use the chart.) roll a scatter dice for the second rocket. If a Hit is rolled replace the small template with the large template and allocate hits as normal. if a scatter is rolled, roll 1D6 and scatter another small template from the center of the first rockets landing in the direction rolled. This can be shortened.. I tend to be longwinded. on yours if you rolled the final 2 machines in the battery as hits you could use a very large template or make it do the earthshaker effect in addition to the large template.
I also think that even if you keep the rules the same you are WAY off on your points.. 50pts for a Stone Thrower is a steal.. and if your thinking about keeping most of the same rules and adding a massed firing for more damage... 50 is not a good idea. I think that 80 points per machine would be ok..


They won't be full stone throwers. I know I want them to be bought in units of 1-3, and I want them 50 points or less. I think maybe S3 (/S6) and all Rockets in the battery have to fire at the same target... I have a big update coming. Big Grin

Quote:
I think the Battle Harness would be better off with D3 Strength 4 as a single strength 5 have not many uses.
the Chronicle of the CD.. I think it should give bearer and unit joined hatred against all enemies and Always have hatred against Dwarfs.

You also forgot Minimum and Maximum unit sizes.. These are key.


I like the Battle Harness and The Chronicle of the Chaos Dwarfs. They're not over-the-top, and a free S5 impact hit is nice, and I like them as cheapy magic items.

I'll pencil in unit sizes.

12-06-2008 01:58 AM
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kk2k2
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Post: #8
RE: My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 12-07-2008

Latest Update:
Unit Sizes are finally pencilled in.
Blunderbusses have undergone a lot of revision. Engineers now make them do d3 wounds, the Strength is the same as always (although you need ranks of _5_ now), but they're better at standing-and-shooting against Cavalry charges. Oh, and a lone model with a Blunderbuss (or a unit which can't quite wheel to face an enemy) can now do a Breath Weapon instead. Daemonic Hand Cannons still give +1 S. Big Grin
Characters have full profiles now; CD Heroes are T5 Ld 9, CD Sorcerors are T5 M2, CD Sorceror Lords are M1 (so give them a mount or the Armour of +3 Movement) - since their legs ARE turning to stone.

Fuller explanation on the Battle Harness and The Chronicle of the Chaos Dwarfs:

A S5 impact, on essentially cavalry, is arguably better than +1 attack, and I'm trying to be restained.
The Chronicle doesn't affect the unit because I wanted something that made the character more dangerous in combat, and a unit-buffing effect would be iirc 45 points, not 25 (see VC). Eternal Hatred against Dwarfs make little sense to me; Chaos Dwarfs don't hate Dwarfs. This isn't like the poncy poncy elves, we just wandered off up North and got separated from our weaker southern cousins. Frankly, I'd say we respect them more than we do weak-willed humans, limp-wristed elves, or any other inferior race out there.

12-07-2008 11:46 PM
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Grimstonefire
The Magician Technician
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Post: #9
RE: My Revised List (0.8)Grimstonefire 12-09-2008

I'd still give the warriors hw only, with option for GW.  GW are not that great against many things, so the 4+ with hw would help chip off a bit (2/ model) if you're short on points.

For fluff reasons I'd also rename Chaos Armour.  Black Plate Armour for instance  or Hell-forged Armour.  Chaos Armour means the CD would find it nigh on impossible to remove, which is impractical and against most CD fluff.  They are not warriors all the time (unlike chaos warriors).

I don't know why, but I'd like to see a 'Mouth of Hashut' hero character in your list.  No real reason, but it seems to fit somehow.

Would you consider giving the BT CD crew?


Ever the best of friends Mum. 1953-2011   Sad

This post was last modified: 12-09-2008 07:29 PM by Grimstonefire.

12-09-2008 07:23 PM
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kk2k2
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Post: #10
RE: My Revised List (0.8)kk2k2 12-09-2008

Renaming the Armour is certainly possible.  
Hellplate, perhaps?

As for HW only Chaos Dwarfs for point-cost saving? I think the fact that I reduced the number of required units of Chaos Dwarfs back down to one probably covers any points crunch needs. If you can't afford the 20 points to give a minimum sized unit of 10 CDW great weapons... *shakes head sadly*

Chaos Dwarfs crewing a Bolt Thrower is possible; I kept it the way it is mostly for cotinuity. Perhaps a 'you may take a Slavemaster for X points' upgrade instead?


What would a 'Mouth of Hashut' style hero BE, exactly? (Keep in mind, I have no intention of doing special characters... we don't use them here, so I really have no idea where to go with them).

12-09-2008 11:57 PM
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