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Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut
Author MessageWarhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut
Nicodemus
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Post: #1
Warhammer Quest and dreams of HashutNicodemus 07-13-2009

I've posted my progress on a couple of other gaming forums, and while the photos aren't specific to Chaos Dwarfs I thought it could be of interest... there are some thoughts on CDs below the photos for those who like to read

Sorry for the slight blur in some of the photos, my slaves who took them were complaining of trembling due to hunger, they tasted my scourge instead Takes Hat off

Core components







Catacombs of Terror


Lair of the Orc Lord (and Cave-in tile from White Dwarf 192)


Gorgut's Throne



White Dwarf Tiles:

Cave-in (White Dwarf 192) with removable rubble.


Sewer (WD 204, still incomplete), the Gaol (WD 185) and Quirrik's Laboratory (WD 195)




I worked on this for ~2 1/2 weeks during the evenings and estimate that this took over 110 hours -- 6 hours per night for 2 1/2 weeks.


As a postscript to this whole project I've been disappointed for years that there's no readily-accessible options for including CDs in Warhammer Quest, even though most of the Monster Tables from Level 2-10 have them included somewhere. The lack of minis had driven me to give CDs a lot of thought over the past few years and this has also increased my desire to start getting some minis going so that I can actually use them. As an (ill)logical extension of wanting to have CDs for use in WHQ, I've started a CD-themed Warhammer Quest expansion, and here we come to my real reason for posting here... I've got the makings of a CD expansion booklet that I'm working on, similar to the Catacombs of Terror and Lair of the Orc Lord expansions.
The expansion will expand on the CDs introduced in the Warhammer Quest RPG book all following a heavily CD-themed storyline:
Six Adventures for the Warriors
Hazard encounters between Adventures
new Event Tables
new Treasure Tables (Dungeon and Objective room)
new Monster Tables (for levels 6-10 only)
(hopefully) new Dungeon tiles
new entries in the bestiary for CD "Monsters" (read: deamonic machines, seeing as there aren't any machines in Warhammer Quest, except maybe the Rat Golem from White Dwarf vol.195)

I'm also fleshing out a totally separate Chaos Dwarf Quest companion piece for the expansion which will have rules for four different CD types as well as a 3-part campaign-style Adventure for them, along with leveling tables, skills lists, etc.  I also figured they should be able to take a couple of slaves into the Dungeons with them to use as meat shields, so I've started some rules for them as well.

So how does CDO fit in?  If there's any interest at all I'd love to know about it, and I'd also really appreciate any thoughts people have on some CD-themed things that should be seen... spells, magic weapons/armour and also what kind of 'flavour' it should have.  Briefly, some of the background regarding the main six-part campaign Adventure for the regular "good guy" Warriors:

Concerning the Deep Forge Chaos Dwarfs...
This was a faction of CDs who split off from the main empire a few centuries ago and expanded into new territory far below the Black Mountains using their Black Orc slaves as heavy labour.  The Black Orcs, being far more numerous then their CD masters at that time, rebelled and for a short time had gained an upper hand. Subsequently when the CDs pressed the offensive against their rebelling Black Orc slaves they hunted them mercilessly throughout the labyrinthine underground passages until they were all but wiped out.  The CDs, so disgusted by the rebellion now adorn themselves and their armour with Black Orc skulls as a both a symbol to their remaining slaves and as proud trophies. Since the uprising, the Chaos Dwarfs of Deep Forge are led by a powerful CD Sorcerer and a Master Deamonsmith. All this time the Deep Forge CDs have been slowly expanding and improving its arsenal of deamonic machines.
They now possess the ability to tunnel across vast distances relatively quickly, almost as quickly as their machines could move on the surface, and they have begun to use this ability to tunnel within the borders of other lands. This has led them to many battles against Goblins and Skaven in the under earth.  The CDs of Deep Forge have also found some specialized use for warpstone which is often acquired after defeating Skaven war groups in the undergound passages and dungeons.  
Using their fast tunneling machines to erupt through the surface, and using machines designed to quickly cut stone slabs from bedrock, the slaves of the CDs can quickly erect a small surface stronghold, often surrounded by fresh lava floes all around, generated by the tunneling machines (think something like the Stronghold by Vexxus, featured in the Diabolic Furnaces of WOH No.3). It is from such sites that the Deep Forge Chaos Dwarfs launch their attacks. In a relatively short time period they have thus far attacked border settlements of the Dwarfs, Elves and the Empire.
The Warriors are initially in the wrong place at the wrong time when the CDs attack a Dwarf keep and are drawn into the battle.
During the course of the adventures the Warriors will have to storm one of their strongholds and make their way through the underground passages, working their way back toward the Black Mountains to find the source of the attacks.

If people are interested let me know and I'll post some material in this thread for review and comments. I've got some design ideas for custom tiles that would be used in the Adventures. I plan to craft them in 3D to go with the rest of my set, but some creative input from others would be great...

Sorry for the long read Wink
~N


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This post was last modified: 04-27-2017 02:10 PM by Nicodemus.

07-13-2009 05:25 PM
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wallacer
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Post: #2
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...wallacer 07-13-2009

Awesome.  I did something like this for Space Hulk years ago, but not to as high a standard as yours.
An underground factory would be a nice idea for CD, as would daemonic weaponry in the treasure tables.
Equipment could obviously include Chaos armour, Obsidian armour, masks, blunderbusses, scimitars etc.  Blunderbusses would be particularly entertaining underground.


Army pics: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...888&page=1
07-13-2009 05:34 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #3
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Nicodemus 07-13-2009

wallacer Wrote:
Awesome.  I did something like this for Space Hulk years ago, but not to as high a standard as yours.
An underground factory would be a nice idea for CD, as would daemonic weaponry in the treasure tables.
Equipment could obviously include Chaos armour, Obsidian armour, masks, blunderbusses, scimitars etc.  Blunderbusses would be particularly entertaining underground.


I planned the final Adventure to take place in a ziggurat that's been converted into a factory with multiple floors. At the lowest levels will be the primary Deamon Forge where the deamonic machines, weaponary and armour are "created".  

I've been trying to keep an almost (don't shoot me) steampunk kind of image in my mind for these CDs... albeit twisted and evil steampunk Wink
I'm planning that any tiles will all feature gears and/or machines or machine parts of some kind.  ... and lava

The Warhammer Quest RPG book does have CD blunderbusses and they're pretty devistating, I took it a step further with the CD Warriors, the training allows a Warrior to branch off and either remain a general all-around fighter staying a "Chaos Dwarf Warrior" or he can switch and become a Gunner (bad name and I'd love suggestions for what else to call them specifically other than "Blunderbusses")... the Gunner has skills more suited to being able to shoot well, make his own shot, etc.

I have some entries for chaos and deamonic weapons and armour already... no scimitars yet, but there is a Scourge of Slave Mastery that's only available as treasure for the CD characters, giving them the ability to command one additional slave in the dungeons (I figured commanding them in battle in the dank and dark dungeons is harder so they can't take all 1000 with them, only a few) and there's also a Scourge of Slave Driving that let's the wielder attempt to Frenzy his slaves on the current board section.

~N


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07-13-2009 06:25 PM
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wallacer
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Post: #4
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...wallacer 07-13-2009

NIcodemus Wrote:
I planned the final Adventure to take place in a ziggurat that's been converted into a factory with multiple floors. At the lowest levels will be the primary Deamon Forge where the deamonic machines, weaponary and armour are "created".  


Tremendous.   Takes Hat off

NIcodemus Wrote:
I've been trying to keep an almost (don't shoot me) steampunk kind of image in my mind for these CDs...


Nothing wrong with that, CD are well suited to fill the steampunk role.  It's one of the reasons why GW's refusal to re-release CD puzzles me.

NIcodemus Wrote:
Gunner (bad name and I'd love suggestions for what else to call them


In the Indy GT CD army list they are called "Annihilators", so that would probably be a good choice.


Army pics: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...888&page=1
07-13-2009 06:42 PM
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cornixt
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RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...cornixt 07-13-2009

Those are incredible! Not only the shapes but the painting tone and texture. I'm really looking forward to your ziggurat models.


There's a lot more in the wiki than you think, check out the wiki contents

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07-13-2009 07:04 PM
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Khan!
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RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Khan! 07-13-2009

You are my Warhammer Quest hero!

As I love both WQ and Chaos Dwarfs, your project has my hearty respect and interest.  I have a scratch-built WQ set as well, although not nearly at the standard that yours is.

Reading the adventure tables, it seems a lot like when GW wrote WQ they were hoping to use it as a vehicle for selling Chaos Dwarfs - they really do have a disproportionate presence in the tables.

I'd love to see your treasure and hazard tables.  The folks I play WQ with, including myself, figure that one of the flaws of the game is that the treasure seems to plateau around battle level 5 or 6.  Once my old (Chaos) Dwarf character got the sword that does two extra dice of damage and ignores armour on 5+ to hit, he didn't really need anything else....  So changes to treasure are cool!

Also, regarding steampunk - I say go for it all the way.  Steam punk CDs are awesome.


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07-13-2009 07:09 PM
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GRNDL
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Post: #7
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...GRNDL 07-13-2009

Any chance of a tutorial/informational on how you made the tiles?  I am suddenly inspired...


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07-13-2009 08:09 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...dedwrekka 07-13-2009

Wow! Simply amazing. I second the tutorial request. Might also be great for building bases.



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This post was last modified: 07-13-2009 08:13 PM by dedwrekka.

07-13-2009 08:12 PM
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two_heads_talking
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RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...two_heads_talking 07-14-2009

I love it.. I'm completely bushwackered by what you've done.

would you care to post up some WIP and some step by step that you've done on them..  perhaps even some color selections and techniques..

07-14-2009 09:16 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #10
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Nicodemus 07-14-2009

two_heads_talking Wrote:
would you care to post up some WIP and some step by step that you've done on them..  perhaps even some color selections and techniques..


I took very few WIP photos, and seeing as everything is now done it's unfortunate as I guess there was a lot of fiddly bits that required thought.

Here's what I'm able to comment on:

I used 1" thick extruded polystyrene (pink insulation foam) purchased for $15CDN from Home Depot.  You can't get much cheaper when you consider you can get almost all of the WHQ board sections from a single sheet.  


I should also note here that the squares on the cardboard tiles in WHQ are ~30mm, while this works perfectly well, I decided I wanted squares that were a little larger ~45mm - the thinking was that I wanted more room between miniatures and I also prefer to have dice on the board indicating how many Wounds each Monster has remaining (WHQ came with tiny wee dice, but just not enough of them, so we use the size of dice that come with BFSP).  In any event using smaller squares means smaller tiles and uses less foam.


For cutting you need a straight edge/ruler to guide your cuts and a sharp box cutter or X-acto blade (if you care).  Here's the difference between cutting with a fresh new blade and the old blade that had been used to cut out most of the board sections:





For making your tiles/square there are two options I used. The first (and by far easiest) option is to make cuts in the foam.  You want to mark off your grid of squares, remember that mine are 45 mm (actually they're measured at 1 3/4").


With your straight edge and using your good (read: sharp) blade make a cut at ~45 degrees, and slightly off-centre from where the lines are, and do this on both sides so that you end up cutting out a V-shaped trough.


Again, if you try to do this with a blade that might seem sharp but has had some use this is the result:

You can see the less sharp blade results in pulling instead of nice cuts and you'll have to start digging and tearing these bits out.  This can be OK if you really do want rougher cuts (maybe it's an ancient and weathered ziggurat you're making?)


Your other option for making squares is to cut out plasticard (you can get this at most hobby shops for a few $).  Here the squares are each cut out and then using my box cutter I shaved off the edges of the squares to give them a rougher look, and also cut some grooves in them.  You'll need to experiment with this.  I believe the thickness I used was 0.3mm plasticard - each square is somewhat flexible but doesn't bed too easily while cutting notches, etc.  In general this works great and you will want to make bigger cuts and gouges than you might initially think.  

Cautionary note you need to think about: Keep in mind that you will have to spray primer on the plastic tiles, and most primers aren't compatible with foam, they will disintegrate and eat away at the foam.  While that might be a cool effect for a Nurgle theme, in general it'll make you sad (or angry).  So spray primer on your carved up tiles first then glue them down to the base.  I use a hot glue gun for this and a modest amount of glue.  Too much and the tiles will be quite raised, too little and they won't necessarily stick over time.


As you can see from the photos the surface of the foam is relatively pristine.  This might be OK if you want a new-looking model, maybe a throne room, for example.  If it's a dungeon your surface probably needs cracks, chips or other features in it and this is the time to do it... and it's all up to you.  In general you can get decent chips and cracks in the floor by doing freehand cutting by the same method you used for delineating the squares above.  Real chips and 'chunks missing' will require you to make a new small incisions with a blade to get the shape started and then just tear it out with your fingers and don't be too careful, you probably want it to look like natural breakage as opposed to an attack by disgruntled stone cutters.

The last step here if you want it (I recommend it) is to sand all the sides and edges of your boards with medium-to-fine grit sand paper.  This will smooth off the edges and also let you round off corners.  Alternatively, if you have a hot wire or hot knife you could have been using that all along to sculpt the outer edges of the board sections.  For further texturing go get a rough-edged rock from the yard or park if you don't have a yard (put it back though if it's a BIG rock from the park).  Using the rough surface of the rock and a little pressure you can press it into the clean, flat and pristine surface of the board to give it a more natural look.  Make sure you move the rock around and use different edges and angles.  For a couple of my board sections I also used the heads of a fistful of nails to get some interesting indentations.  The rock I used was from an ancient ruin from where my wife and I... hmm, never mind. I'll keep that to myself Wink  Sufficed to say I didn't put my rock back... tisk tisk.


Once this is all done you can now prime your foam.  Again, don't use spray primer, unless you know it's safe for foam.  Krylon does make a spray primer (I think with the name H2O on the can), and that's safe for foam.  Save yourself the trouble here and get some black acrylic paint, you're going to need it anyway for painting your tiles later.  I got a medium-sized bottle for $6 which has lasted me through priming ALL of the WHQ tiles, and it was also used for darkening colours.

My method, is to paint the edges of the board all around first with a good thick application of black acrylic paint.  Then lay the board section down and give it a thick application of acrylic paint down along the grooves between the squares and in any cracks or edges.  Lastly and using loads of paint you can gently apply the paint to the top surface.  Try to get an even coat and don't press too hard with the brush or else you'll just be moving paint around at this stage.

Once it's totally dry apply a second coat.  You will need it, but you'll also find the second coat goes on much more smoothly.  Here's a finished example.



It's also at this stage that you can start gluing down any extra bits that required spray primer, such as plasticard tiles, etc.


Here's the various stages:
Rough layout of board sections
note the board section at the bottom that's at an odd angle


Assembly of all the various bits that are going to make the finished tile


Primed plastic bits and painted foam bits (floor tiles primed too, but not shown)


And the finished piece


As a side note here: the panel in front of the warp generator was just cut with individual strips of card stock that were glued down with super glue (the hot glue gun is totally out of the picture when you're working with these smaller scales so forget about it!!).  The semi-circles are from a hole punch used on some plasticard.  To get the bolt holes along the corners I thought about getting some small round bits of plasticard but it was ultimately easier to go the other way - I used an embossing tool (shown below) to press a divot into the spots the bolts are supposed to be.  When you're dry brushing the tiles later the brush should skim over the surface of the divot leaving it it's original  black undercoat and giving you a perfect looking dot for the bolts.
Here's the embossing tool:



I don't have any examples of actually painting the boards, but you can feel good that most of your work is done by this stage!  For painting I generally just dry brush everything.  If you're not familiar with the technique you just get some paint on your brush and then get rid of almost all of the excess (either back on to you palette or on some paper towel) until the brush is almost dry.  Then just do a couple of test brushes on some other surface (your paper towel again perhaps) and then very lightly brush the surface of your board.  

You want to start with a dark base coat, go darker than you think you will want, it's easy to go lighter, if you start out too light you won't be able to get good light/dark contrast and if you want to make it darker you need to start over (really) as your eye will be able to tell that something is wrong when darker colours are showing up over top of lighter ones.  From your dark base you can start pressing a little more with the dry brush if necessary or you can start going to lighter shades.
Note for contrast and picking up details: you probably never want to use a pure white to highlight your boards as it's just too much highlighting and will be as subtle as a dwarf in a brewery.  Use lighter shades of colours already in use, or even start to go toward a grayish tone of your palette for the board section.  White needs to be reserved for extremely close surfaces at light sources or very sharp edges of things.

Here's an example of a very dark base, several layers of lighter shades (just by mixing a pale blue into the paint I was already using for the base coat) and then slowly working up toward white.  Again, it's all dry brushing which will really pick up details and gets the job done fast.


If you notice on the tiles there's always a focal area that's supposed to draw the eye, either to a light source (above) or to somewhere else (below):



For some of the final bits, like doorways (if you're reading this for WHQ) you can make some pretty simple stands for the doors by cutting notches into the base of a piece of foam, sized to fit under a door.  Note that this block only had one base coat of black in the photo and still needs it's second coat to be brought into play.



Here's some other examples of the boards...

Example setup before added all the detail to the board sections, such as skulls, barrels, etc.




I detest making flames... or at least I did. I can make passable ones now that only take 2-3 minutes to scupt.  


The material is called "Water Effects" (shown below on the far left with the black cap).  You can just apply a glob of it and sculpt it really fast using a toothpick.  Make sure you let it sit for 24 hours before spraying it with primer.



This is my "palette" and you can get a sense of the number of colours that go into making up a board section:



As a second-to-last final note: you're going to want to spray all of your boards with some kind of sealant/protectant.  Use a matte finish for most, if not all, areas.  If you want good looking water, slime and lava mix some wood glue with your base coat (I use a little of the water effects stuff too to make it more viscous so it doesn't run everywhere).  Once that's done it'll have a bit of a shine to it, now you can spray it with a gloss finish.
But wait... pretty well all of the finishing sprays on the market will eat foam (in the same way some of the the primers do)!


I hope someone didn't run off to spray too soon before reading this far down...

With all those base coats and layers you're pretty protected already, but you will ruin all of your hard work if you're not careful at this stage.  Testors Dulcote is safe for foam, if you're using anything else (like me) apply a very light spray to the surface.  I mean very light.  Let it dry completely and then do it again.  Once you have a bit of a protective layer built up on the board then you can be a little more liberal with the finishing spray.  If you get any pooling or dribbles (or if the nozzle is clogged and you have drips falling down onto your work) it'll eat through the foam like acid (well, like a polystyrene solvent anyway).

As a final-final-note: I've done all kinds of cheaty things here that others may be wondering about... I've been doing casting for a few years so I'm able to make a single item (like the pillars in the throne room above) and then get identical copies.  Hidden from you in some of the photos as well is green stuff (such as on the warpfire generator).  I also cast my own WHQ doorways, and this allows me to cast individual bits from the surface of them as well - like the stone faces which I've used to inlay in some other board sections.  Just to be clear - I cast for my own in-home use, so I'm sorry in advance to anyone who wants to have me make them things or buy recast things, I just can't reply to you... and it's not fun for me either Wink



Hope everyone enjoyed...
~N


Nicodemus' adage: "It is not enough to bash in skulls, we must bash in minds!"

Nicodemus' Forge of Unfinished Business (Chaos Dwarf Blog) and Non-Dawi'Zharr Blog
Warhammer Quest & Dreams of Hashut (3D Tile Creation Blog - Dawi Underway & More!!)
Chaos Dwarf 'Quest Blog (Download the Warhammer Quest: Chaos Dwarfs Roleplay Book )
Warhammer Quest: Chaos Dwarf Expansion (Board Game Geek)

This post was last modified: 07-14-2009 02:08 PM by Nicodemus.

07-14-2009 02:01 PM
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Zanko
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Post: #11
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Zanko 07-14-2009

Brilliant - awesome - and totally insane!

Just stunning!

It´s very inspireing to make/build also Terrain for my CD´s, not for a special game but just for my vitrine ... for good looking!

But I doubt that I have the skill and the time to make models at the same level!

          Hashut!

PS Very good and clear manual!
     Thx mucho!


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This post was last modified: 07-14-2009 02:12 PM by Zanko.

07-14-2009 02:11 PM
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RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Xander 07-14-2009

Remarkable work.  I am jealous.  I've wanted to do something similar for Hero Quest.


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This post was last modified: 07-14-2009 03:55 PM by Xander.

07-14-2009 03:54 PM
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RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Kera foehunter 07-14-2009

Kera is speechless


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07-14-2009 05:52 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...wallacer 07-14-2009

Great tutorial, thanks for posting it.
Next you can start making Chaos Dwarf scenery Tongue Wink


Army pics: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...888&page=1
07-14-2009 07:13 PM
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GRNDL
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Post: #15
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...GRNDL 07-14-2009

Very nice tutorial. From the pics I wouldn't have guessed it was styrofoam. I have a whole whack of it, so I've got something to go on.  I was thinking that it was polystone, resin or wood or something.


Takes Hat off GRNDL's CD Army Blog  

      
07-14-2009 07:38 PM
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two_heads_talking
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Post: #16
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...two_heads_talking 07-15-2009

Well, that has to be one of the best tutorials I've read in a long time.. Nicodemus, my hat is off to you.  that's wonderfully described and the photos are immaculate..  

We,in the construction business, call that pink or blue board..  depending on the color..  It's really just a simple insulation product used for buildings.

again, well done Nicodemus..  Well done.

07-15-2009 02:20 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #17
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Nicodemus 07-15-2009

two_heads_talking Wrote:
again, well done Nicodemus..  Well done.


Well we should thank my wife as well... she said she had no problem with me taking some of the insulation board  out of our crawl space so that I could finish the base of Quirrik's Lab....  Well, it's no wonder I married her Wink


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07-15-2009 02:24 AM
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tjub
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Post: #18
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...tjub 07-15-2009

Wow...


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07-15-2009 02:41 AM
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slev
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Post: #19
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...slev 07-15-2009

You should replicate the instructions at Old Scratch.


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07-15-2009 06:44 AM
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Hazkar
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Post: #20
RE: Warhammer Quest and dreams of Hashut...Hazkar 07-15-2009

OMG this is so cool


07-15-2009 10:43 AM
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