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[split] Chaos Dwarf design discussion
Author Message[split] Chaos Dwarf design discussion
Neil
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Post: #21
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionNeil 06-25-2010

Kered Wrote:
I doubt GW will go back to the cartoony big noses they seam to be going for a much darker theme though there might be some humor scattered about.


AssurBahniZharr Wrote:
I also think main problem with a new army is economical risk, and sadly i also believe that a restyle of Cd is a must (actually transforming them into a "new army" as well.


These are the two main factors stopping a Chaos Dwarf re-release, and they are both tied together. The last CD army was Big Hats, which are firmly tied into the cartoony warhammer or 4th edition. Unlike other armies, which were gradually moved to a more gritty style towards the end of 5th edition, Chaos Dwarves were left behind.
Wheras other armies that have been re-done for 6th and 7th could reuse some of the existing models and artwork, Chaos Dwarves no can't, as the existing models and artwork just don't fit in with the rest of the warhammer world anymore.

So to re-do Chaos Dwarves, would be a huge investment, they would need completely brand new art, brand new models as well as a rules update. Effectively, you would have costs similar to a brand new race, and with no indication of how well they would sell, you have a large financial risk. This more than any idea of offending a particular group of people is the reason they haven't been done.

I think that if there is a way back for Chaos Dwarves, it will be slowly and gradually and through some kind of White Dwarf list. Hopefully, GW will use White Dwarf to support some of the forgotten armies now 8th is released, but I won't be holding my breath.


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This post was last modified: 06-25-2010 04:35 AM by Neil.

06-25-2010 04:33 AM
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Baggronor
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Post: #22
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionBaggronor 06-25-2010

Quote:
Chaos Dwarves no can't, as the existing models and artwork just don't fit in with the rest of the warhammer world anymore.

The Hellcannon does. Its a start.

Quote:
I think that if there is a way back for Chaos Dwarves, it will be slowly and gradually and through some kind of White Dwarf list.

They don't really do WD lists anymore though, because WD lists occupy a nebulous area of officialdom. If there is to be a way back, I believe it will be because of CDO. Eventually we will be too big for them to ignore.



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06-25-2010 06:43 AM
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richard barby
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Post: #23
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionrichard barby 06-25-2010

If there is to be a way back, I believe it will be because of CDO. Eventually we will be too big for them to ignore.
[/quote]

well said there mate this site must be a pain in arse as most member are adult seriour gamers that add even more weight to it .there not kids going i wantHappy

im many regards i only scrached the surface when i started this a few days ago im really pleased by the amount of  responces a fully redone army in my mind is a must for gw for all long in the tooth fans like me.

earlier in the thread someone mentioned art waok needing to be re done a few days ago on one of the armylist (fan lists) i saw a really old bit of art work. of tall hats choas dwarfs and woodelf mowhawk wardancers very old school i never thought i would see it again but im very pleased that i did

06-25-2010 07:23 AM
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Hashut's little helper
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Post: #24
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionHashut's little helper 06-25-2010

I am looking forward to seeing something very different from the big hat brigade.
I would rather they were more akin to the hellcannon crew with some homage to 3rd edition.
I do not want to see Mesopotamian dwarfs, that would be a big sad yaaaaawn.
Chaos Dwarfs should be CHAOS first and foremost.
Lets see some mutations and madness among them.

06-25-2010 04:59 PM
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richard barby
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Post: #25
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionrichard barby 06-26-2010

Hashut's little helper Wrote:
I am looking forward to seeing something very different from the big hat brigade.
I would rather they were more akin to the hellcannon crew with some homage to 3rd edition.
I do not want to see Mesopotamian dwarfs, that would be a big sad yaaaaawn.
Chaos Dwarfs should be CHAOS first and foremost.
Lets see some mutations and madness among them.


hell no beards and hats all the way choas is a tag there not really part of choas there just bad ass dwarfs

06-26-2010 03:56 AM
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Baggronor
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Post: #26
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionBaggronor 06-26-2010

No giant hats. Masks all the way. (lol here we go again Happy)



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06-26-2010 05:39 AM
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Nazhur
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Post: #27
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionNazhur 06-26-2010

No little chaos warriors, boring. A proper Chaos dwarf should always wear a big hat (guess which camp I belong to?). Happy

j/k. Everyone for themself, when it comes to taste

06-26-2010 06:06 AM
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Baggronor
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Post: #28
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionBaggronor 06-26-2010

Bah, fools!! Only the mask is the true path, etc etc

Its nice to see all varieties of CDs are still supported here though Happy



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06-26-2010 06:09 AM
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Fallen246
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Post: #29
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionFallen246 06-26-2010

I forsee my models being masked Chaos Dwarves Tongue

06-26-2010 11:25 PM
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Alric
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Post: #30
RE: Chaos Dwarf Rumour Snippets (includes rumour summary on page 1)Alric 06-27-2010

richard barby Wrote:
i think for gw its not doable to rerelease choas dwarfs under there currant fluff they would need a complete rewrite. im only basing this off of a few things i will try and explaine.
most armies have a real world counterpart empire brets tomb kings are clearly germany france and egypt respectivly
for choas dwarfs its Assyrian/Babylonian currantly middle east from syria to iran. there also clearly for want of a better word bad guys in the fluff. Its not even a gaming reason but you cant pose the white guys as the heros and the middle eastern as bad guys even in gaming back ground it would be really hard to sell that is not subtle racism at best blatant at worst. I think its a real shame as choas dwarfs are my first army and the only army i still own. there back ground was written in the 80s not post 911

i really hope im wrong with what i have said and there re done and smash all before them like they should do


Willmark Wrote:
Not sure I agree.

GW will obviously not make a Arabian army per say, but a chaos dwarf army? Who is going to be upset by that? The little people of the world (Since midget, or dwarf has a band connotation in today's society). I doubt that the Middle Eastern world is going to take much offense since in their world view their art does not allow for the depiction of anything human or animal based.


Well it might help if you knew that Assyrians are not Arabs or Muslims , as a  matter of fact most present day Assyrians are Christian.

The ancient civilizations of the Assyrians and Babylonians were founded before the arabs or islam came to Mesopotamia.

So if the discussion is if arabs or muslims might be offened , only if they decided to change/convert first.

Just a bit of info for the " bulls are cows, etc "   crowd here at cdo.


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This post was last modified: 06-27-2010 02:42 AM by Alric.

06-27-2010 01:45 AM
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Hashut's little helper
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Post: #31
RE: Chaos Dwarf Rumour Snippets (includes rumour summary on page 1)Hashut's little helper 06-27-2010

Alric Wrote:
Well it might help if you knew that Assyrians are not Arabs or Muslims , as matter of fact most present Assyrians are Christian.

The ancient civilizations of the Assyrians and Babylonians were founded before arabs or islam came to Mesopotamia.

So if the discussion is if arabs or muslims might be offended , only if they decided to change/convert first.

Just a of bit info for the " bulls are cows, etc "   crowd here at cdo.


If ever there was a reason to avoid the anthropomorphisising of the Chaos dwarfs then this is it.
Avoid getting anywhere near too close to human historical aspects because it will always fail to meet the accepted standards that everyone has for a period in history.
Keep them Dwarfs and lash them with Chaos.
I'm so glad the big hats are dead, they were fun but they became dated after a few years and I want my Chaos dwarfs to be sinister, not a laughing stock attraction for an Ogre Kingdom travelling circus.
That was a fun but silly abberration and I'm glad it's time has long since passed.

Thats why I will go with the Hellcannon crew look everytime over the 18 year old massive hat sculpts from 4th edition.
I used to own 5000 points of the big hat brigade but I'm glad I sold them on because I never wanted to use them on the table after about 1998.

I am waiting for some fresh new look that takes CD's in a different and darker direction more in line with 3rd edition and the Hellcannon crew.
They are long overdue a major make over.

06-27-2010 02:22 AM
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rabotak
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Post: #32
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionrabotak 06-27-2010

I guess the most sensible way would be mixing 3rd/HC look with the 4th ed assyrian style, make the 4th ed style darker but the chaos-look more sophisticated...
after all, theyre rich, crafty and civilized rather than the barbarian tribes
of the chaos wastes... and we really dont want any mini me´s of chaos...
think of dwarfs looking like smaller clones of the imperium...

06-27-2010 04:26 AM
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Fequiil
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Post: #33
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionFequiil 06-28-2010

Baggronor Wrote:
Bah, fools!! Only the mask is the true path!


you're right, etc etcBig Grin

06-28-2010 04:19 AM
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Willmark
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Post: #34
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionWillmark 06-28-2010

rabotak Wrote:
I guess the most sensible way would be mixing 3rd/HC look with the 4th ed assyrian style, make the 4th ed style darker but the chaos-look more sophisticated...
after all, theyre rich, crafty and civilized rather than the barbarian tribes
of the chaos wastes... and we really dont want any mini me´s of chaos...
think of dwarfs looking like smaller clones of the imperium...


I'm not so sure their looks as what is or is not stopping them from being re-released. I think that duiscussion probably only matters to us. To GW the only question is will they sell. Much like anything in life it comes down to money. If they see enough profit they will do so, if not they won't. My contention all along is that they model range is already there with using components from the O&G, chaos and dwarf range. GW has moved away from the hobby modeling angle to a large degree. They want people to but near finished models it seems.  Ironically for some of us here thats largely irrelevant as we had enough of GW being asleep at the wheel and took our fate into our own hard and just started making our own figures.

The larger picture is GW in position to take risks from the finaicial perspective. That answer is yet to be determined. In the meantime they can continue with Space Marines.

In any event our best bet is to keep up with we are doing and hope the "mystery army" rimless on warseer turns out to be us.




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This post was last modified: 06-28-2010 02:45 PM by Willmark.

06-28-2010 02:35 PM
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cornixt
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RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussioncornixt 06-28-2010

Those rumours have been going for over a year without even a further hint. There were supposed to be actual models, seems odd that they'd leave them in a cupboard all this time.


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06-28-2010 02:37 PM
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Willmark
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Post: #36
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionWillmark 06-28-2010

Notice I didn't say I believed them, I said "hope". Happy




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06-28-2010 02:44 PM
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Zuh-Khinie
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Post: #37
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionZuh-Khinie 06-28-2010

I fear that if GW brings out chaos dwarfs again, that they'll be a part of the chaos armies as we see them now.
Even the rumour that forgeworld will redo them pitches them into the chaos army...

I personally don't like to have chaos dwarfs that just look like stunted marauders with curly beards.
I also find it annoying that the hellcanon crew had eight-pointed stars on them.

If GW/forgeworld redoes them, most of the Hashut background will be left out... it'll probably still be in the book, but you won't be able to tell that Hashut is their god when you look at the models. That is what I think when I look at the helcanon.


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06-28-2010 02:45 PM
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Nazhur
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Post: #38
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionNazhur 06-28-2010

Zuh-Khine, I totally agree. My biggest fear is also that they will trade of our background for something else (less offence, propably something more daemonic) and that they will make mini chaos warriors with beards. That´s not what I want for our beloved chaos dwarfs. I love our current fluff, it´s uniqe and good (even if it could use more work on it).

Mystery army I think will be fishmen! But nothing against that, I love fish

06-28-2010 02:54 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #39
RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionGrimstonefire 06-28-2010

It would be impressive actually for them to have warmachines with religious design elements.  I can't actually think of any warhammer warmachines where this is obvious.

I'm not sure the question is whether they would make a profit or not, I think the question is whether they would make enough of a profit to make it worthwhile.


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06-28-2010 02:58 PM
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Willmark
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RE: [split] Chaos Dwarf design discussionWillmark 06-28-2010

But that could be said about any industry. Of course a trickier proposition in wagames.

There is an old saying in war-games/RPG: "How do you make a million dollars in the gaming industry? Start out with two million."




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06-28-2010 03:03 PM
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