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Brass Etching & CD Iconography
Author MessageBrass Etching & CD Iconography
Nicodemus
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Post: #1
Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 06-26-2010

In combination with all of the other bits and pieces for my CD army I'm going to start brass etching some Chaos Dwarf iconography to put on shields, armour, helmets, etc.

I've got everything I need to start the brass etching, except good designs.  While I can just scan the pages from the White Dwarf CD supplement book that are allowed to be "photocopied" I'd like to enlist the help of the community here. On the one had the designs would be a good general resource for everyone and hopefully this thread will be useful to others who want to try etching as well (it doesn't seem that hard, actually).

To get the ball rolling here are a couple of low resolution images from the CD Custom Dice thread from the recent past:





The first and third one above would work as-is, but the second one would need some tweaking of where the white/black is.

I'm sure there are all kinds of other things that can be done with the brass etching that I haven't thought of so feel free to share ideas here too. Maybe a type of Chaos Dwarf barbed wire?  Even short little bits of it would be great for flails, etc.

Who knows, if this works out maybe I can crank out a few batches to use as prize give-aways for some future CD contests Wink

~N


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This post was last modified: 06-27-2010 10:56 PM by Nicodemus.

06-26-2010 05:12 PM
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Nazhur
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Post: #2
RE: Brass Etching CD Iconography, etcNazhur 06-27-2010

Sounds very intersting. Good luck with trying to do it. Sadly I can´t help as I don´t know anything about this.

06-27-2010 02:52 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #3
RE: Brass Etching CD Iconography, etcNicodemus 06-27-2010

Here's the basic idea...
The design gets transferred to a thin sheet of brass and then the sheet is dipped into an etching solution (ferric chloride) for an amount of time.

After etching all of the white space (the space not protected from the etchant) is eaten away and after washing off the pattern that's protecting the remaining brass area one is left with a brass version of the frame.



This is just an idea of what could be made and at any size... my plan is to have some batches made up for use on shields instead of doing everything freehand or getting decals made.  I also want some small pieces of CD iconography to just put everywhere, similar to the existing Dwarf line from GW, which have runes and carved Dwarf images on everything, hanging from armour, weapons, etc... My Dawi Zharr are also not happy that their Black Orcs are still covered in Orc symbols and they intend to properly brand every inch of those Black Orcs to make doubly sure they know who their masters really are!  Respect to the Hat!   Hashut!

Seriously, if anyone has thoughts post them! Cheers! You don't need to post a fully worked-up image of your idea... so if anything comes to mind please share them here!

~N

P.S. A lot of the white space in the image above (where the etchant will eat away the brass) could be used for smaller pieces, like skulls, cracked anvils, etc.  Additionally I think there's some opportunity to make some cool brass pieces representing fragments of the eight-pointed star of Chaos which are very small in size. These could be used along edges of gloves, shields, weapon blades, etc. (think of the Chaos star on the helmet of the Hellcannon crew member with the shovel on the sinister side of the CDO banner at the top of the forum pages, or even pieces that could be curved into the types of beard cuffs seen on the other modified Hellcannon crewman on the CDO banner).


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This post was last modified: 06-27-2010 10:51 PM by Nicodemus.

06-27-2010 04:51 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #4
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-02-2010

The project had a bit of a false start tonight....

Here's the supplies so far:

etchant (ferric chloride)
tank
hot plate/stir plate combo
distilled water
brass sheets
ink jet printer
iron
print mask for etching

Below is the mask I made up. It's not elegant as I made it quickly, but it should work (more or less).  Some details and joins may be too small, but we'll see.  By the way, thanks m3lvin and other artists around CDO for granting permission to use your material (you'll notice a rendering of m3lvin's Daemonsmith below).


I printed out the mask on our ink jet printer and had the mask and brass sheets cut to size... only to find out that heat transferring the image onto the brass sheets with an iron won't work because the printer doesn't use the right kind of ink for the job and it won't transfer with any amount of heat. I got it hot enough that the paper was starting to turn brown.  Nuts.  Time to start mooching for an ink jet printer from friends....

~N

P.S. m3lvin's Daemonsmith above is for a separate project from my Chaos Dwarf army... I'm working on fixing up an antique box (from 1889) for use as a gaming accessory.  The box opens out on all sides and is pretty cool on its own (was used to hold accessories for a Singer sewing machine in ages past).



I'll use it mostly to carry dice and other bits & bobs around in. I also thought about magnetizing the inside and using it to house my Chaos Dwarf Lords and Heroes for transport Takes Hat off  Anyway, the brass etchings of the chaos star, some of the other Chaos Dwarf symbols and the Daemonsmith will go on the outside. At least that's the plan.


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07-02-2010 03:36 AM
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Kered
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Post: #5
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyKered 07-02-2010

An Idea struck when you mentioned the mask you made why not make etched brass masks for making chaos dwarfs.


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07-02-2010 11:39 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #6
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-02-2010

Kered Wrote:
An Idea struck when you mentioned the mask you made why not make etched brass masks for making chaos dwarfs.


Yes, that would totally work. There's a lot of room for modifications and experimenting with that idea too as it should be possible to even brass etch leather straps to fold back around the sides of the head, armour plates that hang down to cover the beard rolls, etc.

Obviously it will also be possible to make multi-layered pieces similar to what the steampunk hobbyists make. .. who knows what kinds of cool steampunk-inspired machines and bases I could make! Wink  I may end up changing the plans for my army's "look" if I get this working.

~N


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07-02-2010 12:58 PM
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zobo1942
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Post: #7
RE: Brass Etching & CD Iconographyzobo1942 07-02-2010

@ nicodemus:

I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly - the white space is completely disolved? So - and this is just an idea - if different sized gears, etc... were drawn, you could create 'clockwork' parts. That would be pretty awesome - there was a thread a while ago about a clockwork-style 'design element', and maybe creating something like a chaos dwarf 'Orrery' to divine the actions of the winds of chaos (or something like that...) Could this be used to create some impressively evil looking mecahnical parts? Or, maybe to 'pimp' out the 'soul-grinder' cannon attachment you made (freaking amazing, btw).

And, the idea of creating armour plating, etc... would be awesome as well!

07-02-2010 04:02 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #8
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-02-2010

zobo1942 Wrote:
I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly - the white space is completely disolved?


Yes, the white areas are unprotected and exposed to the etchant.  The large areas of black everywhere (outside of the 'wanted' parts) is just there to minimize etching more metal than is needed to get the desired shapes.  The etchant is expended over time and needs to be replenished, but minimizing unnecessary etching will make it last much longer.

zobo1942 Wrote:
So - and this is just an idea - if different sized gears, etc... were drawn, you could create 'clockwork' parts. That would be pretty awesome - there was a thread a while ago about a clockwork-style 'design element', and maybe creating something like a chaos dwarf 'Orrery' to divine the actions of the winds of chaos (or something like that...) Could this be used to create some impressively evil looking mecahnical parts? Or, maybe to 'pimp' out the 'soul-grinder' cannon attachment you made (freaking amazing, btw).

And, the idea of creating armour plating, etc... would be awesome as well!


Yes, gears and other bits and bobs is on my list.  Here's an example from a steampunk blog:



And I had seen the thread mentioning the orrery as well and was thinking it would be much easier to do with some etched brass pieces.  Provided the item you want to make can be made from flat pieces of metal and then bent or shaped this is a lot easier to get complex shapes than cutting plastics by hand... simply because you can design everything on the computer so that every bit is exactly the right size and shape every time.  That's a lot of talk for someone who hasn't made anything yet though! Wink

There isn't anything stopping someone from making a whole unit of Chaos Dwarfs with bases that look somewhat like this:

And although it can be done with plasticard and an Xacto knife, cranking out enough parts to make 50+ would be tedious... if I do make bases like that one I'll just let the etchant do my work for me Wink

~N


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07-02-2010 05:24 PM
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zobo1942
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Post: #9
RE: Brass Etching & CD Iconographyzobo1942 07-02-2010

re: post#4

You mentioned trying to use an iron to transfer your image - and that you were looking for an inkjet printer... don't you mean a laser printer? I'd have thought that you would be looking for a heat-set image to heat and 're-set' on your brass plate?

I'm REALLY interested in seeing what you come up with - the idea of a chaos dwarf observatory is spinning around in my head!

This post was last modified: 07-03-2010 12:57 AM by zobo1942.

07-02-2010 08:21 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #10
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-03-2010

zobo1942 Wrote:
re: post#4

You mentioned trying to use an iron to transfer your image - and that you were looking for an inkjet printer... don't you mean a laser printer? I'd have thought that you would be looking for a heat-set image to heat and 're-set' on your brass plate?


Yes.. duh. Laser printer, but using inkjet photo paper.

After 20 minutes I'm ditching the ferric chloride route.  I didn't want to have to deal with disposing of hydrochloric acid/H2O2 at home (and the eventual spills)  .. but I'm done waiting for this thing to etch darn it!  There'll be a weekend trip to the lab this weekend.

~N


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07-03-2010 01:45 AM
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zobo1942
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Post: #11
RE: Brass Etching & CD Iconographyzobo1942 07-03-2010

I'm not sure, but maybe there's some information here that will help. The instructables website is probably the most useful website I've found on the internet:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Etching-brass-plates/

Please post your results - I'm REALLY curious to see them!!

07-03-2010 12:28 PM
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zobo1942
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Post: #12
RE: Brass Etching & CD Iconographyzobo1942 07-06-2010

Also, another great application for this in scenery building would be for creating items like manhole covers for sewers, door hardware and the latticework for stained glass windows.

I may need to try doing this myself!

EDIT: here's some more good info...

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/fh_pe.htm

This post was last modified: 07-06-2010 03:18 PM by zobo1942.

07-06-2010 02:43 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #13
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-06-2010

zobo1942 Wrote:
Also, another great application for this in scenery building would be for creating items like manhole covers for sewers, door hardware and the latticework for stained glass windows.


Yes, great minds think alike!  If this works I was thinking of doing something similar for my next scenery project. I noticed after I started this project that many of the trees growing along the sidewalks in our city are sitting in a square patch of gravel, which is covered over with iron grates (with half of a hole on each side of the grate for the tree trunk). The grates are carved with lions heads, plants and other bits and bobs. I was thinking that I could make endless trimmings for doorways, sewer grates, etc etc.

~N


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07-06-2010 04:27 PM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #14
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-09-2010

This'll either work today or it won't...



I'll keep you all posted.

~N


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07-09-2010 04:56 AM
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Shakhorth
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Post: #15
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyShakhorth 07-09-2010

Hope it works, looks great!

07-09-2010 05:03 AM
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Nazhur
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Post: #16
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNazhur 07-09-2010

Yes, best of luck!

07-09-2010 05:32 AM
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Kered
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Post: #17
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyKered 07-09-2010

Good luck and remember "to never fail is to never improve."


cornixt Wrote:
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My Chaos Dwarf Log:
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http://www.ramblerstheshow.com/

07-09-2010 11:25 AM
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Nicodemus
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Post: #18
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyNicodemus 07-09-2010

Kered Wrote:
Good luck and remember "to never fail is to never improve."


Too true. Well I just popped in to say that it worked a treat... more or less. The big areas of exposed brass over the daemonsmith were a problem, too much etching and too little material left behind to resist being etched away completely.

Pictures to follow tonight!  Big Grin  Takes Hat off

~N


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07-09-2010 01:39 PM
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zobo1942
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RE: Brass Etching & CD Iconographyzobo1942 07-09-2010

WOW! I can't wait to see the results!!

Could you give us a complete run down on your process with information like chemical composition, thickness of material, etc... I really interested in learning about this - it has so many applications! Also, are there any other metals which can be used in this process?

Amazing stuff - can;t wait for the pictures and the update!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

07-09-2010 03:11 PM
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Border Reiver
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Post: #20
RE: Brass Etching & CD IconographyBorder Reiver 07-09-2010

I want to see how this turns out, it'd really speed up shields.


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07-09-2010 03:56 PM
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