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Artisan's IX - Regiment of Renown
Author MessageArtisan's IX - Regiment of Renown
Baggronor
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Post: #61
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownBaggronor 11-26-2010

Quote:
but as a compromise (maybe nobody thinks we need one) what about keeping the word limit where is it, which may mean there's a significant amount of material that has to be cut, including good stuff, but then after the competition the winning entrant(s) could be sent a PM to provide their full-length text and fluff.  ... so the comp would be for the RoR with the most paired-down fluff representation,

But then someone has to go through and edit everything down. And we all lose parts of fluff when people vote. Is that not the worst of both worlds?

I could do a 500 word RoR, but they won't be nearly as fun as the 1000 word one I wrote first (and even that was edited).

I just don't see why such a harsh limit has been imposed; was the first competition plagued by overly long-winded entries or something?



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11-26-2010 02:21 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownXander 11-26-2010

I'd be fine with upping the limit.  

It seems logical that a typical Dogs of War entry from the original army book would be a good template size to use.

Though, I didn't initiate this contest, that would be my two cents.  I leave it up to the fine staffers who've been very active when I have not been so.


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11-26-2010 02:53 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #63
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThommy H 11-26-2010

Quote:
I could do a 500 word RoR, but they won't be nearly as fun as the 1000 word one I wrote first


Which is the whole point really. See, I get word limits. I'm fine with word limits. There is a skill in eliminating extraneous language and presenting an idea succinctly. But is that the point of this contest? Is it a competition to see who can say the most with the least words? It seems like a bizarre thing to be rewarding, when I think the whole point is for everyone to have fun and write something cool.

I should point out that we've had this problem with rules/fluff competitions before. The staff sometimes seem to have a weird bee in their bonnets about writing competitions failing because people won't read all the entries or whatever. I argued several times that you can't police people's participation or investment in a contest, so why not just let those people who want to join in let loose? Why does it matter?

All I'm asking for is a word limit that allows me to produce what I want. Otherwise what you get is a bastardised entry that's been pared down for no good reason. If there was some logic to such a harsh limit, I'd understand, but I genuinely think it was arrived at almost arbitrarily.

I could be wrong. It does happen very, very occasionally.


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11-26-2010 03:00 PM
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BilboBaggins
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Post: #64
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownBilboBaggins 11-26-2010

Hmm, I did my fluff in under 400 words. Big Grin


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11-26-2010 04:37 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #65
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThommy H 11-26-2010

On mine, the basic fluff section at the start clocks in at just over 500 (without editing, yet), but the special rules all have fluff too, and the total word count is >1000. So I either need to do some harsh editing to bring it under this word limit, or just decide it isn't worth it *shrugs*.


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This post was last modified: 11-26-2010 04:41 PM by Thommy H.

11-26-2010 04:41 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThe_Bear_in_the_Hat 11-26-2010

The other option, though I'm not sure how those running the comp would view it, would be to do it like an army book entry.  Submit your piece as though it were a simple listing, with a bit of description, and then do a post on the site as a Bestiary entry with as much detail as you see fit.  If you think people have to know every detail about your unit's style of underwear and prefered dietary requirements then you can include all that in the Bestiary post, without needing to put it in the entry.  I don't know how that would sit with everyone but it seems a decent way to get around everyone's issues.  There could even be a specific thread where everyone could post their background fluff, which would mean the 'judges' would have less to read but nobody would feel put-out.


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11-26-2010 05:06 PM
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Baggronor
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Post: #67
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownBaggronor 11-26-2010

Tbh, if its long and boring, no one will vote for it anyway. Keeping people interested is all part of it, surely.

My fluff is now under 500 (just) but the rules listings still contains some extra.



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11-26-2010 05:49 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #68
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThommy H 11-26-2010

I think I'd mostly like some clarification on how the "fluff" sections of the special rules are going to be measured. I can easily cut the main body of the background text down to 500, but there's probably a few hundred more words lurking around explaining why this special rule does that or whatever.


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11-26-2010 05:54 PM
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Baggronor
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Post: #69
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownBaggronor 11-26-2010

Quote:
I think I'd mostly like some clarification on how the "fluff" sections of the special rules are going to be measured. I can easily cut the main body of the background text down to 500, but there's probably a few hundred more words lurking around explaining why this special rule does that or whatever.

I think anything that is explanatory fluff and not the in-game rule explanation itself counts towards the 500.



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11-26-2010 06:00 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #70
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownGrimstonefire 11-26-2010

Seeing as we are over a month off from this closing, and as I'd like to get more entries than the last rules artisans (7 I think), I'll up the word count to 1000.  The same rules apply though, anything that appears to be background parts over this will be deleted.  Unless your story writing is particularly dull it will be obvious which parts these are in the rules section Wink.


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11-26-2010 06:43 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #71
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThommy H 11-26-2010

What if your rules are particularly exciting?

But thanks. 1000 is a lot more generous! I hope no one whose entries are currently clocking in at <500 don't feel they've been hard done by. I played an online roleplaying/creative writing game for some years in which there was persistent rumour that the judges always picked the player that had written the most and that writing long posts was the surefire way to win. Of course, unlike in love making, size didn't really matter: it was what you did with it. The real reason I kept winning was because I was awesome, not because I rambled on pointlessly for thousands of words.

So, to summarise, I hope everyone will keep in mind that the length of the entry should have no bearing on its quality. Again, unlike in love making.


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11-26-2010 06:51 PM
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G.2
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Post: #72
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownG.2 11-26-2010

Grimstonefire Wrote:
I'll up the word count to 1000.

This should keep everyone happy, and happy people write great fluff.

@ Thommy H: I am now expecting to read something awesome. The pressure is on. Happy

Thommy H Wrote:
I hope no one whose entries are currently clocking in at <500 don't feel they've been hard done by.

I don't think anyone should feel too hard done by. It is not too late to add a few more words if they need to.


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11-26-2010 07:07 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #73
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownGrimstonefire 11-26-2010

If it makes it easier you can label the fluff parts that are connected to the special rules in a separate section and not directly next to the rules, when I piece it all together I'll know which bits to look for if the word count is over.

I imagine yours will be exactly 1000 words anyway Thommy so nothing to fear. Wink

Although it's obvious really from the first post, I will be doing any editing I see fit to make it fit the rules.  This will be simple if people follow the rules to begin with, but only enter if you are happy with me doing this.


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This post was last modified: 11-26-2010 07:11 PM by Grimstonefire.

11-26-2010 07:10 PM
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Thommy H
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Post: #74
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThommy H 11-26-2010

My entry is done in the GW style, so it'll all be kind of mixed up. But the whole thing will clock in at under 1000 words, rules and all, so there should be no problem.


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11-26-2010 07:14 PM
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BilboBaggins
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Post: #75
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownBilboBaggins 11-26-2010

Mine is 415 words for everything. But then I didn't go wordy in the fluff.


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11-26-2010 07:26 PM
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Hashut's Blessing
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Post: #76
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownHashut's Blessing 11-27-2010

If people are worried as to what will count as fluff and what won't, if it's not a rule/statistic etc (I.E. Directly relating to the gameplay mechanics), then put it in italics (note: this is not compulsory, just might make you feel safer).

BilboBaggins: Bear in mind that it's not all about the fluff (although with the amount of discussion we've had, it may seem a little like that, lol) and that if it's written well and says what it needs to say, you won't be losing out. If you don't need to use up the extra 585 words, then don't because it will only make the entry suffer from unnecessary chatter.


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11-27-2010 08:01 AM
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BilboBaggins
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Post: #77
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownBilboBaggins 11-27-2010

I put in what I felt it needed and stopped. Of course I could have gone further but I'm going with the Less is More style.


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11-27-2010 01:27 PM
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Sad  RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownVexxus 11-29-2010

Sad I am, caved to complaining, we have. Sad

BIG RED LETTERS said: "Only enter if you are happy with the rules as they are stated below."

I am honestly disheartened to see that the squeeky wheels have gotten the grease. Changing the limit has changed the contest, which is now more weighted to fluff and less to rules, and I think that is a shame really.

The irony is that I was an advocate for less restrictions in these contests, as I felt that they honeslty seemed in place solely out of fear of the "bigger is better" phenomena. Just as I come to accept the imposing of arbitrary conditions as indisputable, a select few threaten (yes I am sorry to inform you, those were threats) to withdraw their entries, and the cap is raised.

::SIGH:: Quite Disappointed.

That being said, I won't pretend I was going to enter and/or threaten not to.

This post was last modified: 11-29-2010 11:45 AM by Vexxus.

11-29-2010 11:44 AM
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Thommy H
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Post: #79
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownThommy H 11-29-2010

I know they were threats - why do you think I made them?

Or, perhaps a better way of looking at it is this:

Suppose in the last Golden Hat, everything had been the same, except that instead of it having to be on a "game legal base", the rules stated that it had to be on a 20mm base. No exceptions. There was still all the stuff about how it could be a Bull Centaur or a Wolf Rider or whatever, but everything had to be on 20mm. End of.

Would prospective entrants who wanted to make larger models not be within their rights to question that limitation? Now, if the organisers don't want to change it, that's fine, and they can adapt or not enter (like how Clam withdrew his entry because of the base...), but they have the right to ask for a bit more leeway.

That's all we've done. Asked. Don't ask: don't get. We got, so no worries. I should point out that no one's complained about the additional word limit - there weren't two camps here. Some of us just felt that 500 was a bit restrictive and asked for it to be raised. It's really not a big deal.


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This post was last modified: 11-29-2010 12:05 PM by Thommy H.

11-29-2010 11:50 AM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #80
RE: Artisan's IX - Regiment of RenownGrimstonefire 11-29-2010

To be honest with well over a month left at the time of changing it, everyone has a chance to improve it if they were struggling.  The rules change is equally fair to everyone I think.

If I had changed the ruling right near the end it would be different.

I didn't (and don't) see the need for it to be 1000 words, but unlike the GH's where we will get dozens of entries regardless of the rules specifics, a rules based artisans we'll be lucky to get 8 entries.  So in the spirit of trying to make it more inclusive upping the word count was justified in this instance.

In terms of setting a precedent that if people complain and threaten enough the rules will change, this is not. Wink  The GH competitions are always aimed at the majority.  Artisan's we try and get lots of entries but we realise they're not as inclusive.

As to how issues are raised about our competitions, this is something the Staff have been discussing recently.


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This post was last modified: 11-29-2010 12:28 PM by Grimstonefire.

11-29-2010 12:22 PM
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