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5 Votes - 4.8 Average   The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [23-11-2018]
Author MessageThe Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [23-11-2018]
JMR
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Post: #61
RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-17-2014]JMR 04-17-2014

I'm impressed by your sculpting skill, Admiral. The faces look great.

I'm not sure if the tops on the hats are thick enough. I don't have any of the old GW hobgoblins to compare, but I've checked on some pictures. It seems that on the classic models, the hat(top) is sloped further back, and overall thicker.
Your hats have the top pointing straight up, or even forwards. It's different from the classics.
Also, if you look at the classics and go from the base of the hat to the top, it gradually gets slimmer, while on your hats it's wide -> thin -> thick. For me it makes the tops feel "detached" from the rest of the head. It misses a smooth line somehow.

Now, being different from the classics isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Maybe I can illustrate what I mean better with some photoshopping. If I don't reply again, my photoshopping has failed Tongue

Either way, I'm looking forward to see how this develops.


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04-17-2014 07:48 AM
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JMR
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-17-2014]JMR 04-17-2014

Right. I've taken your last photo and edited the head in the bottom-left corner.



I've added the original on the right side.

I hope this better illustrates what I tried to say. The hat could possibly even be sloped further back on some models.

Again though; I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong. It's all a matter of taste after all.

I hope this helps.


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This post was last modified: 09-11-2017 03:45 AM by Admiral.

04-17-2014 08:16 AM
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-16-2014]Onyx 04-17-2014

Admiral Wrote:

@Onyx: Thank you! Would you be interested in getting hold of these heads youself? In that case, turn to Bloodbeard once and if we manage to get these cast.


Yes, generally speaking I'm interested. I'll be perfectly honest: Should Russian Alternative release wolf riders I'm happy with before you get the heads cast I'll go with their hobgoblins as I already like the archers very much - with the only downside that there are no matching wolf riders available.

For a long time there were no really good and affordable options for hobgoblins out there and now we got two at once - one out of the box (RA) and one for conversion (yours).

04-17-2014 08:46 AM
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Admiral
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-17-2014]Admiral 04-18-2014

@Sticklander: Thanks! I agree, variation is for the better.

@Bloodbeard: That's a positive sign for this project. Wink

@JMR: Thank you! That is the kind of vital critiscism we're looking for. Takes Hat off

I understand what you mean. I've had my own doubts about the hat shapes and have thought about reworking them a bit. The tops won't be taken back unless there's a general demand for it, since I quite like that part and it would mean a lot of extra work, but thanks to your input I'll try to bulk up the rear part of several hats to get a more satisfying profile.

I think there's a way to make it look right without any major rework, even with the hats still pointing the way they do.

@Onyx: Russian Alternative have got wonderful miniatures. You wouldn't do wrong in using them only. Cheers!

I plan to mix some RA miniatures into my future Hobgoblin units and perhaps a few 4th edition ones if I can find any cheap. The rest will be converted. Mix 'n' match.

Alright, this might be the last update for the weekend. It's going to be busy and will at best allow for only a little sculpting work. If possible I'll get to pick up the camera today.

From left to right we have one stage 1 Champion head, the Thracian helmet, an ordinary head where the stitches at the left part of the backside doesn't show up on the scanner and a WIP stud hat.

Do the cheek guard of the helmet work? Should the top part of the helmet be bigger?



Thanks for all the feedback and interest, folks!


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This post was last modified: 09-10-2017 03:08 PM by Admiral.

04-18-2014 07:39 AM
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Dînadan
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-18-2014]Dînadan 04-18-2014

Great work, some nice heads there Happy

Not a fan of the Thracian helmet style - just doesn't look right to me :/



Is it just me, or does the left hat head have mutton chops? Lol


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04-18-2014 08:44 AM
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MadHatter
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-18-2014]MadHatter 04-18-2014

Dînadan Wrote:
Great work, some nice heads there Happy

Not a fan of the Thracian helmet style - just doesn't look right to me :/



Is it just me, or does the left hat head have mutton chops? Lol


I also like the hats better than the helmets, however hats over helmets is a choice I always make Wink


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04-18-2014 09:18 AM
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Admiral
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Post: #67
RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-18-2014]Admiral 04-18-2014

Thanks for the input! I'll redo the cheek guard to make it more similar to the hats. I'm stubborn in having this helmet in there, but it have to fit in decently with the rest. Happy

Haha, mutton chops was something I tried to avoid when sculpting the hair, but don't despair. Most of the connection to the face will be covered by the hat flaps.


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04-18-2014 09:27 AM
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Fuggit Khan
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-18-2014]Fuggit Khan 04-18-2014

These are coming along very nicely...I'm impressed at the quality, variety of styles and your sculpting speed!
I rather like the Thracian style helmet...even though it does not fit in with the 4th edition style, a bit of variety is always good...perhaps it can be used as a one-off boss.
And I see the beginning works of a horned Khan style hat there on the left, nice!


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04-18-2014 12:50 PM
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Admiral
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-18-2014]Admiral 04-19-2014

Thank you very much, Fuggit Khan! That means a lot coming from a Hobgoblin connoiseur. I'll aim at making the helmet fit in well enough to be used amongst ordinary Hobgoblins. It'll take some trial and error 'til we get there.

Temporary unemployment is a hobby time resource to be exploited ruthlessly whilst it lasts. Wink

Very well! Today gets a mini-update due to an experiment with the rearside of a hat and the Thracian helmet. From left to right we have Thracian helmet (now with skull, not scanable from front), a complete boar tusk helmet with head only missing ears, a hat with reworked backside and a stage 2 champion head.

Do the reworked softhat have a better line/profile than most of the previous ones? JMR was kind enough to voice his concern about its unsatisfying, diagonal backside. Which was a concern I had shared since sculpting the hats in the first place.



Oh, and the new camera have arrived. Perhaps I'll have time to become devoted to its machine spirit tomorrow.


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This post was last modified: 09-10-2017 03:08 PM by Admiral.

04-19-2014 03:31 AM
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JMR
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Post: #70
RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-18-2014]JMR 04-19-2014

Admiral Wrote:
Do the reworked softhat have a better line/profile than most of the previous ones?


I think they look a lot better now. Keep up the good work!


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04-19-2014 04:42 AM
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Dînadan
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-19-2014]Dînadan 04-19-2014

Agreed - the hats are looking much better now; keep up the good work sir Takes Hat off


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04-19-2014 10:16 AM
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torn
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-19-2014]torn 04-19-2014

I'm not really sure what the helmet on the left is supposed to be, but other than that they all look good.


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04-19-2014 12:31 PM
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Admiral
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-19-2014]Admiral 04-19-2014

@JMR: Thank you for both advice and well wishes!

@Dînadan: Thank you for the above as well!

@Torn: Thank you for the same, too! The helmet is one of the reasons why I wanted to sculpt the kit in the first place. Perhaps it's time to explain my plans for the kit at this stage, since we're about halfway through the sculpting process with any luck.

Original planning for the project

When Bloodbeard asked me or Rozmax to sculpt a kit of Phrygian hat Hobgoblin heads I quickly came to jump on the bandwagon as I saw ways to develop the old style further. It had comical Phrygian caps and the distinctive Hobgoblin faces. Variety in headgear was achieved with stitches, studs and leader hats.

What do you get from this? A certain ancient look which went quite well along with the CDs of the time. So besides my own, rugged version of the iconic softhats (stitches, patches and studs planned) which had already appeared on two Hobgoblins in my own army I saw two pieces of head protection which would enforce the ancient look and fit in somewhat with the overall style due to their shape.

One was the Phrygian/Thracian helmet due to its resemblance of the textile headgear. Rabble units like Hobgoblins benefit from some variation within limits, and chucking in a helmet was appealing. It's easy to paint it in the same colours as the hats, after all, if one prefer a more unified look.

The same goes for the boar tusk helmet from the Bronze Age. Its silhouette fit in with the sneaky git look and reinforced that archaic look of the heads.

Besides the hats I was also attracted by the chance to sculpt a knife clenched between teeth and a fake nose like on HBO's Rome character Lysandros, both of which seemed fitting for the infighting and spirit of Hobgoblins. Bandage and eye patch is in the same vein.

I hope these variants will turn out satisfactory for the collectors in the end, because they were really what pulled me in besides the chance to try sculpting for casting and get cast Hobgobbo heads of my own.

It's faster to sculpt 10 than 80 heads! Takes Hat off

Of course, I'll have to experiment to make the Thracian helmet fit in well enough. It'll get cloth/leather hat flaps like the rest, fastened in rings. I've also bulked up the protrusion and added a skull to its end.

Hopefully it goes well enough along with the rest of the hats. Helmet pictured belongside the hats with reworked backsides. One of them is still a bit diagonal and quite flat besides the folds, but I'm content to leave it as a remnant of the prototype look.

Do the helmet work better alongside the hats now?


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04-19-2014 08:36 PM
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Bloodbeard
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-20-2014]Bloodbeard 04-20-2014

JMRs suggestions was really well. The hats looks even better now.

Have to add a set of the heads to my bloodbowl team. They have flagnoblants now. Will swich the heads. And would be easy enough to convert to a soft hat, if one don't like it.

The helmet fits pretty well with the hats. Same proportions.

Keep up the great work Admiral.


04-20-2014 01:02 AM
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Dînadan
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-20-2014]Dînadan 04-20-2014

Good work - think the helmet looks better now Happy


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04-20-2014 05:35 AM
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-20-2014]Billy Ocean 04-21-2014

These heads are looking great, a lot of detail and character in there. Honestly, the helmet one is my favorite - its quite a unique style but very fitting with the hobgoblin aesthetic. Good stuff!


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04-21-2014 01:53 AM
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Admiral
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-20-2014]Admiral 04-21-2014

@Bloodbeard: Thank you! JMR's suggestions have been carried out as of yesterday. It would be really nice to see some of these heads in a CD Bloodbowl team.

@Dînadan: Thank you!

@Billy Ocean: Thank you! Then the helmet should work. Cheers!

Alright, I found some time yesterday to add stitches, ears, a first patch, studs and generally finishing the bulking-up of hat backsides. This is where we stand as of currently.



Thanks for the support, folks. It sure helps speed up the process.


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04-21-2014 02:13 AM
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Bloodbeard
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-21-2014]Bloodbeard 04-21-2014

Scan is not as good as the last couple. Harder to see. Try putting them in a zig zag formation - to avoid those shadows.

Or perhaps scan to different pictures with 5 on each.

Hat shape is looking really good now. But details are hard to see, because of the lack of light.


04-21-2014 04:40 AM
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Yodrin
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-21-2014]Yodrin 04-21-2014

You have done a really good job, they look great! The is a bit blurry, you could try Bloodbeards idea with the zig zag to avoid the shadows.

I know it's late in the proses, but have you considered a couple more of the flat helmets? I think those are my favesWink Wink



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04-21-2014 04:47 AM
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Admiral
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RE: The Red Host of Nir-Kezhar [04-21-2014]Admiral 04-21-2014

@Bloodbeard: Something like this (see below)? I've tried to adjust the sharpness of the scanner and will for the sake of it upload a full-size, unmodified scan since it actually managed to show a little of the detail, unlike most other pictures. Thus I think the sharp contrast I usually use is unnecessary in this case. Thanks for the tip!

What do you think about sculpting a third sneaky git style head? That'd give six heads for two moulds, or twelve for one. A nice even number. It would probably have a simple round metal helmet with a few rivets and then long leather/cloth hat flaps like the rest.

@Yodrin: Thank you! It was really fun to sculpt the two sneaky git style heads (flat headgear), so I'll consider chucking in a third if that's okey with our Danish will-be caster. That'd make an even number, 12, for the kit. Wink

Yesterday I found enough time between turns to chuck in  some ears, hat flaps, stitches and a champion face bar tusks. The ears played havoc with the head setup, this is the best ranks available with one to two minutes adjustments. The bottom right head's hat appears flat due to scanner lid pressing down the head at an angle through the ears.

This is where we stand at the moment. What do you think so far?



Edge stitching is visible on some of the heads. You can kind of make out the skull on the Thracian helmet, too.

I'll go to town today to search for camera equipment. If that trip is succesful we should with any luck be able to get good pictures from any angle of the heads.


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And thus there was Chaos. And Squats. Hobby Group Auxillia Work. On Dark Tides. Miscellaneous Commercial Sculpts. Flayman Tutorial.
Chaos Dwarf Writings: Fables. Songs. Sayings. Quotes. Monumental Inscriptions. Religious Texts.
There's fourteen ways to skin a dwarf. Path to Glory: Chaos Dwarf Warband Rules.

This post was last modified: 09-10-2017 03:08 PM by Admiral.

04-21-2014 10:27 PM
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