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Time of Madness
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Post: #1
FAQ Development ThreadTime of Madness 10-21-2011

Hey folks,

My intention is to create a thread dedicated to FAQ for the Legion of Azgorh list. As people get the book they can then add to this thread. I plan on eventually sending this off to Forge World once the community feels it is complete.

This thread will be broken into the 3 sections that GW uses for updates. I will try to keep the main thread updated as we go.

ERRATA SECTION

Cinderbreath Profile error? The book notes increased stats on PG 188, however it has the same stats has a regular Bale Taurus.

PG - 192 Infernal Ironsworn musician cost is listed at 5pts. Should be listed as 10pts.

AMENDMENTS SECTION

PG - 191 Infernal Guard

- Lists the champion as a "Deathmask", however then says "The Overseer may be equipped with...." It should read "The Deathmask may be equipped with...."

PG - 171 Daemonsmiths

- On page 171 the daemonsmith appears to be armed with a darkforged weapon. However on page 189 in the army list section the daemonsmith is armed with a ensorcelled hand weapon. Which weapon is he suppose to be armed with?

PG - 189 Infernal Castellan

- Under the upgrade for battle standard bearer it mentions a Dark Castellan. The entry should state "Infernal Castellan" and not "Dark Castellan".

PG 174 - Bull Centaurs

Bull Centaurs are listed as monstrous beasts which means when they are equipped with spears and have to use them like infantry (additional rank of attacks). Should the spear not grant them +1S when charging?

FAQ SECTION

Q. What base size should be used for Bull Centaur Taur'ruk?
A.

Q. What base size should be used for Bull Centaur Renders?
A.

Q. What base size should be used for K'daai Fireborn?
A.

Q. Can you take a magic weapon when already equipped with a Darkforged Weapon?
A.

Q. The k'daai destroyer and Bale Taurus have the Blazing Body special rule. Are they always wounded on a roll of 6?
A.

Q. Does the hellcannon benefit from the daemonsmiths re-rolls?
A.

Q. If Breath of Hatred is cast on a unit which has already been engage in close combat does the unit still benefit from the hatred special rule (ie. it is not the first turn for that specific combat)?
A.

Q. Does the dreadquake mortar cause D6 wounds to only the enemy under the small templates center hole? Or is the D6 wounds cause to any model under the template?
A.

Q. Does Flames of Azgorh need line of sight? (Direct damage spells don't need line of sight).
A.

Q. Does the +1 to hit for the Hobgoblin bloody murder result apply to both shooting and hand to hand?
A.

Q. Can the Iron Daemon stand and shoot?
A.

Q. Can you take mace tail, sorcerous exhalation and level 2 upgrades for the lammasu?
A.

Q. Can you clarify whether the Legion of Azgorh is a list that can be taken in a Great Host?  If so, how do the Great Host rules work with the Legion of Azgorh?
A.

Q. Does Drazhoath suffer from the Sorcerer's Curse?  It is not listed under his special rules.
A.

Time of Madness


The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
- Robert Jordan

This post was last modified: 11-18-2011 04:39 PM by Time of Madness.

10-21-2011 10:12 AM
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MartyF
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadMartyF 10-21-2011

Great idea,  

Here are the 3 main questions I'd like cleared up Happy

FAQ Section

Q.  Is the k'daai destroyer always wounded on a 6?

Q.  If breath of hatred is cast on a unit already in combat do they get re-rolls on the next turn?

Q. Does the hellcannon benefit from the daemonsmiths re-rolls?

This post was last modified: 10-21-2011 10:19 AM by MartyF.

10-21-2011 10:19 AM
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Grimbold Blackhammer
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadGrimbold Blackhammer 10-21-2011

MartyF Wrote:
Great idea,  

Here are the 3 main questions I'd like cleared up Happy

FAQ Section

Q.  Is the k'daai destroyer always wounded on a 6?

Q.  If breath of hatred is cast on a unit already in combat do they get re-rolls on the next turn?

Q. Does the hellcannon benefit from the daemonsmiths re-rolls?


At least regarding the Hellcannon question, I really doubt there would be any benefit.  Hellcannons do not deploy with War Machines ala giving you an extra deployment, it can charge, it use the Monster & Handler rules, it doesn't suffer from Panic the way a War Machine does, and it has a Thunderstomp attack which no War Machine can do.  I'm more inclined to ask - why would it?!

I would add to the list of questions - can a Daemonsmith's re-rolls be used on enemy war machines?

This post was last modified: 10-21-2011 12:21 PM by Grimbold Blackhammer.

10-21-2011 10:31 AM
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Time of Madness
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadTime of Madness 10-21-2011

MartyF Wrote:
Q. Does the hellcannon benefit from the daemonsmiths re-rolls?


I'll add the first 1 and I suppose I'll add the hellcannon one just to clarify, although I'm sure the answer will be similar to what Grimbold wrote. Same thing goes for hellbound, can you add it to a hellcannon. I'd say no as hellbound is for "war machines" only as per the text.

The breath of hatred is remains in play so it would start as soon as the spell is cast. Which would then grant hatred in the next combat phase for the unit/units it was cast on.

*Edit - I re-worded the first question to include the Bale Taurus, as it has the blazing body rule as well.

Time of Madness


The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
- Robert Jordan

This post was last modified: 10-21-2011 12:20 PM by Time of Madness.

10-21-2011 12:05 PM
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Thommy H
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadThommy H 10-21-2011

Quote:
I'm more inclined to ask - why would it?!


Uh...because the Hellcannon is a daemonically possessed cannon, built and maintained by Daemonsmiths. If there's any model their ability should apply to in background terms, it's that one. But because the authors of this book seem to have forgotten that it has the unit type Monster instead, it doesn't get the bonus. This creates a bizarre situation in which you can have a Daemonsmith who uses his Daemonsmithing skills on mundane engines, but can't give any sort of bonus to an actual daemonic engine.


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10-21-2011 01:49 PM
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Sanguinarian
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadSanguinarian 10-21-2011

Thommy H Wrote:

Quote:
I'm more inclined to ask - why would it?!


Uh...because the Hellcannon is a daemonically possessed cannon, built and maintained by Daemonsmiths. If there's any model their ability should apply to in background terms, it's that one. But because the authors of this book seem to have forgotten that it has the unit type Monster instead, it doesn't get the bonus. This creates a bizarre situation in which you can have a Daemonsmith who uses his Daemonsmithing skills on mundane engines, but can't give any sort of bonus to an actual daemonic engine.


I don't have the book yet, but this just screams "oversight" to me.

I've never really dealt with forgeworld before, does anybody know how willing they are to listen to suggestions for improvements/faqs?

10-21-2011 02:20 PM
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MartyF
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadMartyF 10-21-2011

With regards the hatred spell, I'm not sure I was clear.  If a unit has been in combat for several turns then has the spell cast, do they get re-rolls in the next combat phase?  The rules for hatred say the re-rolls are only for the first turn of combat, which has long passed.  

I would expect a similar answer to the empire FAQ were flagellants would get re-rolls in similar circumstances but I know some people are not so sure.

With the hell cannon I dont think they'll get re-rolls but think there is enough ambiguity to ask the question.

I also think the k'daai should not be wounded on a 6, if flaming sword lets you auto wound by changing a 2 to a 1, then the -1 should do the reverse.

10-21-2011 04:42 PM
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Thommy H
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadThommy H 10-21-2011

Quote:
I also think the k'daai should not be wounded on a 6, if flaming sword lets you auto wound by changing a 2 to a 1, then the -1 should do the reverse.


So it's totally immune to bow fire while a Steam Tank, Warsphinx and a Stonehorn aren't? Yeah...good luck with arguing that one...


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10-21-2011 04:59 PM
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MartyF
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadMartyF 10-21-2011

There have been a few postings about it on the warhammer forum and several prominent tourney organisers have said they would rule that it can't be wounded.

I'm not saying thats how I'd always play it, in the few games I've played its not been an issue (daemons) but, as with any of the questions above, I'd always go with my opponents view.

10-21-2011 06:14 PM
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Thommy H
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadThommy H 10-21-2011

Quote:
There have been a few postings about it on the warhammer forum and several prominent tourney organisers have said they would rule that it can't be wounded.


Good for them. It may be worth pointing out that the Blazing Body rule is a copy and paste job from the necessarily brief (and not envisaged to be used that often...) rules for the Great Taurus in Storm of Magic. That's the book where each bestiary and army list entry is (mostly) condensed down to one page, including a large image. So I would say the full implications of the rule weren't properly thought out, and the fact that it's been reused verbatim on a number of prominent and already quite powerful units in the Legion of Azgorh list is...unfortunate.

Again, it renders the affected units completely immune to the most common type of missile fire in the game. Wood Elves almost literally cannot kill the Destroyer at range, and once it gets in combat, it's going to be chopping Treekin and Treemen into kindling with its Flaming Attacks anyway. Bretonnians might be able to splat it with a trebuchet if they're lucky. Really, the only way to kill the thing is by chucking magic at it since it's such a beast in combat. Woe betide anyone who doesn't (or can't) go magic heavy.


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This post was last modified: 10-21-2011 06:26 PM by Thommy H.

10-21-2011 06:26 PM
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MartyF
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadMartyF 10-21-2011

Bretts have a heroic killing blow virtue in additon to the trebs and magic.  Their lances on the charge should also do some damage, and as cav they can't be thunder stomped.  This combined with armour and ward saves mean they could take it in combat, especially if they get a flank or rear charge for the extra res.

Wood elves have dryads and wild riders who have magical attacks, in addition to various other ranged magical attacks like the hail of doom and spites.  Don't get me wrong, I play wood elves and we'd struggle against it, but we struggle against a lot of things, steam tank included!

10-21-2011 06:44 PM
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Time of Madness
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadTime of Madness 10-21-2011

There are a few things that can go toe to toe with the destroyer.

Cannons and other similar type of warmachines can cause it some problems.

Some of the big monsters out there can hit him pretty hard as well. The necrosphinx and stonehorn for example can do some big damage on him.

As far as standard infantry goes you are right. Although a unit of 18 Tzeentch chosen with 3+ ward save and halberds would put a massive hurt on him. They'd have 19 S5 attacks and still stick around because of the ward save.

Also High elf swordmasters would hit him pretty hard as well. This is assuming the chaos dwarf player is stupid enough to get the destroyer stuck in the front against an infantry unit that can punish him.

Anything with multiple wound weapons is also going to do some damage.

I don't think the Destroyer is as broken as people are making him out to be. He costs a whopping 325pts and you won't be seeing 2 of them in an army until the lists get up over 2600pts.

There are some armies out there that should be able to deal with him rather quickly (empire comes to mind).

EDIT: I'll re-word the breath of hatred question Marty. I understand what you mean now. Consider it added to the list.

Time of Madness


The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
- Robert Jordan

This post was last modified: 10-22-2011 03:50 PM by Hashut's Blessing.

10-21-2011 06:50 PM
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Thommy H
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadThommy H 10-21-2011

MartyF Wrote:
Bretts have a heroic killing blow virtue in additon to the trebs and magic.  Their lances on the charge should also do some damage, and as cav they can't be thunder stomped.  This combined with armour and ward saves mean they could take it in combat, especially if they get a flank or rear charge for the extra res.

Wood elves have dryads and wild riders who have magical attacks, in addition to various other ranged magical attacks like the hail of doom and spites.  Don't get me wrong, I play wood elves and we'd struggle against it, but we struggle against a lot of things, steam tank included!


They were just two random examples - selected because neither Wood Elves nor Bretonnians have access to Strength 4 missile weapons on their units (with the exception of Waywatchers at close range). I don't know why I've gotten fixated on missile weapons either - I guess because the Destroyer is so powerful in combat - but the same logic applies. Most units in the game can't even touch the thing if we interpret the Blazing Body rule literally. They cannot harm it in any way. Big block of Goblins that cost you hundreds of points? Sorry - the best they can do is hold it up for a few turns. That might have been their role anyway, but that's all a bit gamist for me in an edition that specifically re-worked the To Wound chart to allow anything to wound anything.

That can't be right, can it? I also feel that, if it was supposed to be immune to anything below S4, that would kind of be a feature. It wouldn't just be an emergent property of a fairly innocuous rule. It ought to say in big letters, "by the way, you opponent might as well leave his Core units at home if you take this", you know?


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10-21-2011 08:08 PM
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MartyF
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadMartyF 10-22-2011

I agree that they will probably rule that 6's will wound, but thats not how the rules read now. I'm playing devils advocoate a little bit because I dont think he is as unkillable as people say.

The last few things I would say are that almost every list has a character with the 2+ ward vrs fire and that on average the destroyer will be taking a wound or two per game just from a failed toughness test, that only means you might only have to put 4 wounds on him (or win combat a single combat by 2) Happy

10-22-2011 05:31 AM
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Thommy H
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Post: #15
RE: FAQ Development ThreadThommy H 10-22-2011

Quote:
The last few things I would say are that almost every list has a character with the 2+ ward vrs fire


Which is pretty handy if you're playing with tailored lists - not so good if you have no idea what you're up against.


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10-22-2011 05:45 AM
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MartyF
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadMartyF 10-22-2011

Every all comers list I make has that item and I almost certainly always face it.   Part of making an all comers list is to have an answer for every possible threat.

The only time I would NOT take it is if I was tailoring a list and knew I wouldn't be facing some sort of flaming attack.  To combat regen most people will need some sort of flaming threat, you almost always see the flaming banner taken, so for 5 or 10 points a 2+ ward vrs flaming is too good not to take.

This post was last modified: 10-22-2011 06:47 AM by MartyF.

10-22-2011 06:35 AM
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Grimstonefire
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadGrimstonefire 10-22-2011

Not sure which section they should be in:

Great Host rules:

Clarify whether the Legion of Azgorh can be taken in a Great Host.
If so, clarify how the Great Host rules are to be used with the Legion of Azgorh.


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This post was last modified: 10-22-2011 06:51 AM by Grimstonefire.

10-22-2011 06:51 AM
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RE: FAQ Development Threadblowie 10-24-2011

My FAQ is:

If you cast Ash Cloud on a tomb king Hierophite does that provent him casting his incantations, such as cursed blades etc.

10-24-2011 09:50 PM
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Thommy H
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadThommy H 10-25-2011

Tomb Kings follow the ordinary magic rules now.


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10-25-2011 02:37 AM
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Groznit Goregut
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RE: FAQ Development ThreadGroznit Goregut 10-25-2011

I'd like clarification about the multi-wound on the DQM.  Is it only under the hole?  Or the whole template.  I know the logic that some will say just under the hole due to the bit about "same as stone thrower", but I'd like clarification from them.


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10-25-2011 01:11 PM
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