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Daemonology and CD
Author MessageDaemonology and CD
Grimstonefire
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Daemonology and CDGrimstonefire 12-15-2009

In the ancient empire of the Chaos Dwarfs, daemonology has an influence on even the most mundane elements of life, from petty annoyances to the emotions of love and hatred.

The Dawi Zharr believe that the world in which they live is one in which daemons are ever present, they exist everywhere, in everything.  Their belief even extends into their own bodies.  They believe that numerous demonic spirits have the ability to exert power over various parts of their bodies, one for the head, one for the neck, and so on.  If a Dawi Zharr has an injury they know which daemon to curse, and will pray to Hashut for deliverance.  The Dawi Zharr have incredible memories, so even the most minor and obscure of ailments will have an associated daemon to blame.

Whilst this may at times seem highly paranoic to outsiders, it is perhaps not that far from the truth.  During their creation the lands around Zharr Naggrund were blanketed by an almighty magical storm.  Hashut only knows what the greater gods of chaos unleashed upon the land, but many merchants believe that the land itself is alive and capable of killing the unwary.  If daemons are indeed bound into the rocks themselves it is entirely possible that Zharr Naggrund could contain an almost infinite number of daemons, all malevolently watching those that dwell below and silently cursing them for all eternity.

In this hellish world of gloom and misery the daemons do not have full control.  The Chaos Dwarfs believe that Hashut brings balance to the natural order of things.  Where the daemons can be blamed for thunderstorms, misfortune and disease, Hashut can be praised for luck, warm weather and profitable mining.

The Chaos Dwarfs believe that the daemons that surround them exist only to torment them at every step, to work evil and mischievously thwart their efforts.  They claim to perpetuate eternal darkness, but only under Hashut’s divine protection are the ghosts of the dead kept from tormenting the living.

Daemons also represent to the Dawi Zharr a grim reality that can be used and adapted to convey a particular mood or feeling.  When a sculptor or artist creates an image of a daemon it is believed to actually be a physical manifestation of that daemon.  The laughable features of a humorous statue may bring happiness to all that see it, whereas the bestial snarl of a ferocious daemon may inspire dread.  A pestilent daemon may be a warning of contamination in a tunnel, whereas a sublime daemon may be a gathering place for the Dawi Zharr women-folk.

The positioning of these statues, and the quality required from the artisan are carefully selected by the Sorcerer Lords, for their desire to dominate is supreme.

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I didn't realise until earlier, but did you know that daemonology played a huge part in the lives of the Babylonians?  I based a lot of the above off parts I read here and there.

They had good spirits to bring light to the darkness, but I figured Hashut couldn't quite do that..

Related to this, I think Gav/ Rick must have put a lot of research into daemonology.  Apart from the whole Zhatan/ Satan thing, Astaroth/Astragoth.  Hashut being a bull/shadow/flame god is probably based on Baal (or Bael).

I may have a go at writing some rules for using this in the game somehow, themed priests or something.


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This post was last modified: 12-15-2009 09:16 PM by Grimstonefire.

12-15-2009 09:07 PM
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RoguePanda
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RE: Daemonology and CDRoguePanda 12-16-2009

I have to say that rules for this sort of thing would be rather interesting to use or read - I wonder if it might work something like a sort of "magic banner system". What I mean is that some units in an army list are able to buy specific upgrades, a bit like the access to magical banners, with particular effects. Those effects would have to be different from the standard items or spells to make them stand out - maybe they could be one use? I guess I am thinking a little along the lines the current wood elves have in their Sprites system but with more specific applications for units?

So as an example, one unit might buy an upgrade along the lines of becoming Ethereal for one movement turn, so they can move through terrain unhindered. Another might gain a single turn ability to inflict an extra attack at the end of the close combat phase equal to the number of casualties they themselves have suffered - probably a spite demon at work? Things like that would not be that game breaking if they were sort of single use type things?

I hope that post made some sense, I am only half with it today... Good thinking Grim. I am also interested in where the first section of your post is from, is it from White Dwarf Presents? unfortunately I don't have that...

12-16-2009 02:30 PM
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Grimstonefire
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Post: #3
RE: Daemonology and CDGrimstonefire 12-16-2009

No, I wrote that part.  A couple of sentences are pretty much copied from wikipedia or wherever I got it from.

'daemonology has an influence on even the most mundane elements of life, from petty annoyances to the emotions of love and hatred.'  

that bit was.

I like your ideas of special banners, I'm curious in what context you are thinking about this?

I.e. looking at it from a 'warriors are turning slightly daemonic and have super powers' point of view, or as a range of magical banners that are not quite banners (like a single use thing that's not part of the Magical Banners section in the armoury).

The priests of Baal thing is something I happen to know that Gav looked into from a fluff point of view, so it would be nice to try and work in that somewhere.

I freely admit I know next to nothing about the eldar codex, but I was considering trying somehow to theme the list along various aspects somehow, possibly as generic 'marks', but not physical things.  Thinking as I type.


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This post was last modified: 12-16-2009 07:14 PM by Grimstonefire.

12-16-2009 07:14 PM
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RoguePanda
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RE: Daemonology and CDRoguePanda 12-18-2009

Hey Grim Happy  I rather like the aspect warrior type idea, perhaps the different unit types could work that way. My only concern is that one of the main reasons the Eldar aspects stand out is the unique weapons, and I am a little hesitant to overload a Warhammer unit with too many "toys" - it's about beards, blades, and bad attitude after all - leave the fancy glittery items for the elves Cheers! Seriously though, if you could make it work that would be really cool to see.

For the banners I was thinking more towards the second idea you described. I was picturing it that before a battle the unit has decided to bargain with a powerful spirit or demon for some form of boon. The priests of Hashut would oversee it, and the agreement might be symbolised by a special item, like some kind of tablet of metal with liquid metal runic script or something equally interesting to model Happy That way it would fit, to my mind at least, with the basic dwarfishness ideas of oaths, keeping your word, etc, and not letting them devolve into short mutated chaos warriors. After all, I could see the Chaos Dwarfs looking down on those chaos warriors that would be willing to be transformed all the time with more and more mutations - the dwarves are nothing if they are not proud of who they are. Maybe a system of bound spell effects, but not simply mimicing an existing magical lore, might work?

Anyway, enough rambling from me - looking forward to reading more of your thoughts on this one.

12-18-2009 05:42 PM
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Kera foehunter
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RE: Daemonology and CDKera foehunter 01-09-2010

High Priest Grimstonefire!!  what a great view on the belief system of the Chaos dwarfs
this the best one yet explaining the spiritual aspect of them and the daemon power  
:But as always a old hokey religion is no match for a blunderbuss:
*  Kera here a sound of a mechanical  breathing  *  She runs off
Great job Grims


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01-09-2010 07:55 AM
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Revlid
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RE: Daemonology and CDRevlid 01-30-2010

Ooh. I like it, even if it encroaches a bit on my (as yet unposted) Ind fanon. Very nice. Very Shinto, actually.


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This post was last modified: 01-30-2010 02:28 PM by Revlid.

01-30-2010 02:24 PM
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Dead Kennedy
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RE: Daemonology and CDDead Kennedy 02-02-2010

Very cool, that gives a wonderful motivation to Chaos Dwarfs. Everything is evil and being kept in check by their lawful evil love of Hashut.

Another take on it could be Demonic Pacts for heroes. They choose from a demonic patron, either to Hashut or another chaos power. Not wildly overpowered rules or big effects for units, just some sneaky bound spells. A demon then reaches out and grants you that favour you have saved, but takes a toll in return. There could be distinct drawbacks to represent the fact they are trifling with their souls, and it's not recommended for eternal longevity.

This post was last modified: 02-02-2010 06:21 PM by Dead Kennedy.

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Grimstonefire
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RE: Daemonology and CDGrimstonefire 02-02-2010

@Revlid

It seems you and I are destined to inspire each other forever. Wink


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02-02-2010 06:15 PM
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Hashut's Blessing
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RE: Daemonology and CDHashut's Blessing 02-02-2010

I really don't understand how I have never seen this thread before, but I'm glad I have. I really do like that the Dawi Zharr remember the name of every daemon for every injury. It is a faint, twisted reminder of the Western Dwarfs and their ability to never forget a grudge.

If you go with special rules, one would need to be something based on the cursing a daemon each time the unit takes a casualty/wound (maybe only when a multi-wound model takes a wound. Must be CD/BC though). Something as simple as a S1 no armour save hit or something...

Based on the banners/spites idea, why not have it so that units can carry specific idols into battle in a similar manner to spites/magical banners?


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02-02-2010 08:07 PM
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Dead Kennedy
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RE: Daemonology and CDDead Kennedy 02-04-2010

Upon rereading the first post, I just noticed the mention of magical statues. That would make for a really interesting take on a warshrine or Anvil of Doom unit. A gigantic image of Hashut, or a scene depicting a particular event (defeat of dwarfs, victory of general, etc).

To carry that further, what about lugging some big petrified sorcerer to the field? While it's not a demon in an inanimate object, it's a magically drenched object.

02-04-2010 05:08 PM
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